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Thread: Definitive G60 Timing Belt Setting

  1. #11
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    Re: Definitive G60 Timing Belt Setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Yandards
    Quote Originally Posted by Kick Up The Rs
    Thanks,

    Well,

    I've just spoken to Darren and my original cam alignment was correct.

    The lip on the outer cover is a bit misleading.

    Correct timing is when a straight edge is placed along the top of the head (no gasket in place) lining up with the inner single dot on the pulley.

    So, I'll be moving mine back a tooth before I start the engine...
    With the flywheel set to 0 degrees by using the gearbox end did you find that the camshaft pulley aligns correct or that is half a tooth out?
    Yanards,

    Well its a strange one, I checked last night with my cam belt one tooth corrected to what it came off and the dot 'almost' lines up with top of the head (about 2mm out).

    Fitted the belt as it was before I swapped the cam and the inner dot is 'miles off'


    So I can conlude, the belt was one tooth out, but now is correct and 'almost' lines up with the top of the head.

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtytorque
    r u hapy that the intermediate pulley didn't move when you slackended and then re attached the belt ?
    Did u make a note of the position of the dizzy rotar?
    That would be my only concern doing it this way.

    ta.
    The cap is off and the rotor arm sits about 4 deg clockwise of the notch with the flywheel at tdc so i assume all is correct...
    A problem is an opportunity in disguise

    92 G60 Burgundy Pearl Cream Leather - foolishly sold

    TVR Cerbera 4.5 , TVR Tuscan S

  2. #12
    Super Moderator Yandards's Avatar
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    Re: Definitive G60 Timing Belt Setting

    Thats my point really, I spent a considerable amount of time looking at this when I took these pictures I have been working in engineering for over 10 years now so am quite experienced when it comes to looking at set-ups of various items.

    If you set the flywheel to 0 deg TDC and try to fit the cambelt I could not get the single dot to align as shown in the VAG manual with the top of the cylinder head. But what did work really nicely and makes a lot of sense is that the dot aligns really well with the rocker gasket still fitted - the book says that the cylinder head cover must be removed but not the gasket.

    Right to just to really clarify this after I had another flick through the VAG PG engine mechanical workshop manual I found another picture of the belt timing setup - it clearly shows that the 2 dots sit either side of the 'ridge' on the rocker cover, as this rocker cover is unique to the G60 and why would VW add a precise looking notch to the side of an already expensive casting?

    So much as this may be a bit of a shocker Darren is wrong, it may well be better from a performance perspective to run the engine with it advanced one tooth on the camshaft (all the engine work G-werks do is certainly putting out plenty of performance!) but the factory setting is the 2 dots either side of the ridge on the rocker cover. Please see attached picture that clearly points to the ridge on the rocker cover, so I stand by my original article.
    Cheers fool,
    Yan
    1990 G60-16v Blue Pearl Effect
    Now sold, 1991 Nugget G60
    CCGB Technical Secretary


  3. #13
    CF-oholic! Riley's Avatar
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    Re: Definitive G60 Timing Belt Setting

    Last time i set my timing i used the above method that Yanards mentions...Aligning the single dot on the rear of cam sprocket inline with the top of the rocker gasket...Or the two front dots inline with the wedge of the rocker cover, i can't say it ran very differently on the road (seems strange to me) but i recently rolling roaded it at 203 brake horse if that means anything?

    Graph here
    People seemed to think the curve was really good, so maybe the above setting method is correct.

    And kick up't tharse, it sounds like your ignition timing is too retarded? Rotor should point a little before the notch in the dizzy body.

    Neil.

  4. #14
    Super Moderator Yandards's Avatar
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    Re: Definitive G60 Timing Belt Setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Riley
    Last time i set my timing i used the above method that Yanards mentions...Aligning the single dot on the rear of cam sprocket inline with the top of the rocker gasket...Or the two front dots inline with the wedge of the rocker cover, i can't say it ran very differently on the road (seems strange to me) but i recently rolling roaded it at 203 brake horse if that means anything?

    Graph here
    People seemed to think the curve was really good, so maybe the above setting method is correct.

    And kick up't tharse, it sounds like your ignition timing is too retarded? Rotor should point a little before the notch in the dizzy body.

    Neil.
    The only way to set the dizzy up is dynamically with a timing light, especially as the intermediate shaft has that nasty tendancy to spin when you fit the cambelt.

    Figures are 2-2.5k and 5-7 deg BTDC or there should be a mark on the flywheel at 6 deg BTDC, the TDC one has a 0 above it that is barely visible.

    Neil, it is the correct point to set it to according to VW, so as such it is the correct timing set up - you may get improved performance by setting it up slightly differently but I dont know if that is the case and am just speculating. From an engineering perspective this is the correct way to do this and the time I spent looking at variations on these marks just confirmed that my original piece at the top is the proper way to do this.
    Cheers fool,
    Yan
    1990 G60-16v Blue Pearl Effect
    Now sold, 1991 Nugget G60
    CCGB Technical Secretary


  5. #15
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    Re: Definitive G60 Timing Belt Setting

    Yan.. put a DTI gauge on the cam lobe and the piston TDC and measure the dwell angle for both and double check this again.. We have had this come up so many times it was the only way i could confirm 100% which method was correct and i believe this is the correct way to set them up.

    Darren
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  6. #16
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    Re: Definitive G60 Timing Belt Setting

    Quote Originally Posted by W3RKD
    Yan.. put a DTI gauge on the cam lobe and the piston TDC and measure the dwell angle for both and double check this again.. We have had this come up so many times it was the only way i could confirm 100% which method was correct and i believe this is the correct way to set them up.

    Darren
    Thanks for the info Darren, will get that done when I get back, just trying to get a definite answer up here with some pictures as this is one question that is continually asked and it still seems open to lots of interpretation.

    Charger is pulling really well post rebuild so once again many thanks for the drop in
    Cheers fool,
    Yan
    1990 G60-16v Blue Pearl Effect
    Now sold, 1991 Nugget G60
    CCGB Technical Secretary


  7. #17
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    Re: Definitive G60 Timing Belt Setting

    When I changed mine the 1st time,I too spent alot of time on it.
    I found that everything coincided with the bentley as explained by Yan.
    The only confusing bit was the dizzy as people told me that the rotor should line up with the notch.
    Mine didn't.I also think mine was as it came from the factory.My tamper proof cover was still on the dizzy bolt and the timing marks on the crank pulley,camshaft pulley and flywheel all aligned perfectly.
    Also my cam tensioner was literally in bits along with the timing belt which makes me believe the car was as VW intended.



    Now everytime I tamper with the setup I use a timing gun and my setup is non standard now anyway because of a vernier.
    92 G60.

    'I'd like to live like a poor man with lots of money.'
    Picasso

  8. #18
    CF-oholic! Riley's Avatar
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    Re: Definitive G60 Timing Belt Setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Yandards
    Quote Originally Posted by Riley
    Last time i set my timing i used the above method that Yanards mentions...Aligning the single dot on the rear of cam sprocket inline with the top of the rocker gasket...Or the two front dots inline with the wedge of the rocker cover, i can't say it ran very differently on the road (seems strange to me) but i recently rolling roaded it at 203 brake horse if that means anything?

    Graph here
    People seemed to think the curve was really good, so maybe the above setting method is correct.

    And kick up't tharse, it sounds like your ignition timing is too retarded? Rotor should point a little before the notch in the dizzy body.

    Neil.
    The only way to set the dizzy up is dynamically with a timing light, especially as the intermediate shaft has that nasty tendancy to spin when you fit the cambelt.

    Figures are 2-2.5k and 5-7 deg BTDC or there should be a mark on the flywheel at 6 deg BTDC, the TDC one has a 0 above it that is barely visible.
    Oh aye...i realise this Yan, I know the notch is only used during static timing for a rough set up.But once set with a timing light the rotor would normally sit slightly before the notch as far as i know? Mine does and my ign timing is bang on 6deg btdc @ 2250rpm.

    Neil.

  9. #19
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    Re: Definitive G60 Timing Belt Setting

    This is really interesting as I can now recall that when my local indy did my cam belt i noticed that my dynamic timing was miles out and i had to re-adjust the timing...

    Also, since the cambelt was changed I've been suffering from what I thought was little end knocking with the engine warm - not pinking though.

    Anyway, since shifting the cam belt by one notch the noise hase completely disappeard.

    Incidently the Shrick cam is bloody marvelous and I have a dynamic advance of 7 deg which really livens things up!

    A very good thread too...
    A problem is an opportunity in disguise

    92 G60 Burgundy Pearl Cream Leather - foolishly sold

    TVR Cerbera 4.5 , TVR Tuscan S

  10. #20
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    Re: Definitive G60 Timing Belt Setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Kick Up The Rs
    This is really interesting as I can now recall that when my local indy did my cam belt i noticed that my dynamic timing was miles out and i had to re-adjust the timing...

    Also, since the cambelt was changed I've been suffering from what I thought was little end knocking with the engine warm - not pinking though.

    Anyway, since shifting the cam belt by one notch the noise hase completely disappeard.

    Incidently the Shrick cam is bloody marvelous and I have a dynamic advance of 7 deg which really livens things up!

    A very good thread too...
    Schrick is very good value for money I think.
    After the smaller pulley it has been the best mechanical power adder for the car.
    What do you mean by dynamic advance of 7 deg??
    Do you mean your ignition timing?
    was that measured at idle or 2.5 rpm?

    ta.
    Sorry to muddy your thread Yan.
    92 G60.

    'I'd like to live like a poor man with lots of money.'
    Picasso

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