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P3rks

Sunroof won't slide fully back

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Hey guys and girls,

 

I've just replaced the sunroof motor on the VR as the original had gone caput.

 

All was well then about a week later I noticed that the sunroof wasn't sliding all the way back. At first I thought I was going mad but I clearly remember it sliding fully back. A few other threads have confirmed it should go back further than to what it currently is:

 

cce61c6d.jpg

 

Using the manual wind the sunroof does in fact go back further, but when I do, the electric function stops working until I manually wind it further forward. The sunroof slides easily and nothing seems seized at all. It's all been re-greased.

 

I've taken the motor out and re-aligned it (sunroof fully closes, motor removed and the switch pressed until the motor goes fully forward). I've tested it by having the motor in the half way position so it can go fully back on the press of a switch (but then it won't go fully forward). It seems as if the motor is stopping on it's limit before it should. I have also tried a different switch/light console.

 

Is the motor deaded or can I reset or do something I don't know about?

Edited by P3rks

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Little update on this..

 

Changed the motor for another one both I have are part numbers: 3A0959731B.. They are of a different design regarding the mechs but have the same part number on the motor.

 

Anyway, still the same issue.

 

I've had the sunroof motor mechanisms in pieces and it seems to me that the motor relay's wont let it slide back as far as it should... In short inside the motor unit there there is a gearing mechanism which turns multiple cogs, one cog in particular has a two noggins which when rotated, these noggins touch a single switch. So effectively when the sunroof slides forward the cog is rotated one direction until one of the noggins hits the switch; stopping the sunroof when it's in the closed position. Then when the sunroof slides backwards the cog rotates the other direction until the 2nd noggin hits the switch which should be in the open position. Mine for some reason stop just before the open noggin hits the switch, there is obviously some sort of timing mechanism too, which activates before hitting the switch. Bizarre.

 

Any thoughts?

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There are 2 toothed wires in the mechanism. if the sunroof is moved when the motor is out, or the motor is moved when not connected fully you can set them a couple of inches out of whack easily. I done it on mine and it was a pain in the backside to set properly. You might need to take the motor out, slide it back manually, then put the motor back in and see if it slides into place when shut.

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Plenty of posts about this in the search , sounds as above, the motor is out of sync with the sunroof .It will tell you how to reset it . Rob

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There are 2 toothed wires in the mechanism. if the sunroof is moved when the motor is out, or the motor is moved when not connected fully you can set them a couple of inches out of whack easily. I done it on mine and it was a pain in the backside to set properly. You might need to take the motor out, slide it back manually, then put the motor back in and see if it slides into place when shut.

 

Plenty of posts about this in the search , sounds as above, the motor is out of sync with the sunroof .It will tell you how to reset it . Rob

 

I've followed the correct alignment procedures.. By closing the sunroof manually, then removed the sunroof motor, pushing the switch so the motor free wheels all the way back and then pushing the switch so it goes forward all the way. I've used the full closure to do the same just in case. I've tried this countless times with no effect.

 

I've tired doing the opposite by having the sunroof in its current open position and then removing the motor, winding it fully back and reattaching; it then wont fully shut. I've tried opening the sunroof with the motor, manually winding back with the motor still attached to where it should be, but then the motor wont budge (electronically - it's pushing on the closure switch within the motor gearing) - manually wind it forward again and it the motor works as usual.

 

There is no friction in the mechanical mechanism at all.

 

I've even gone as far as closing the sunroof and then removing the motor to inspect the motors internal mechanism to see its final gearing position when its closed. I then refitted the motor, opened the sunroof then removed the motor to inspect the motor mech gearing position when open; I then removed the motor and operated it in the fully open and fully closed whilst inspecting the internal mechs gearing only to find out it matches the exact position of the gearing when the motor was attached top the sunroof so I know it's motor/relay related and not sunroof. Like I say, It's literally like there is a timing on the motor/relay to not travel as far as it actually should. Both motors I have act this way.

 

I've even tried taking the negative off the battery to see if anything reset. Nada!

 

I'll get some pictures tomorrow of what I mean as reading this back is confusing!

Edited by P3rks

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Still sounds like the motor and roof are out of alignment, as the Mk3 roof it interchangeable with the Corrado. The microswitches that detect when the motor is in the closed position are in the motor assembly itself, so move the roof until its at full tilt and slap the back edge of the opening in the roof so that the trim panel pops free. Slide this back out of the way, and then power the roof to the closed position (there are two marks on the mechanism on each side that show where this is). Now, with the motor detached from the roof try holding the switch so that it reaches the closed position and stops. Reattach it and test. If it now behaves itself, move it back to the cult tilt position and reattach the trim panel to the roof by sliding it forward until it lock in place, then close the roof as normal.

 

The other option is that the mechanism has worn to the point where the roof is trying to tilt as it slides backwards, causing it to jam (and burn out the motor...)

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In case anyone else (such as me who wandered onto this page) was interested I have added my own findings to P3erks query about the Corrado Sunroof motors.

The original 1989- early 1993 Sunroof Motor (Rockwell:357877795) had only a 3 pins connector, one was ground, and there were 2 x +12V Switched power to drive the motor forward or back, the 1993 on had a 6 Pin motor that included a Total Closure system whereby if you left the sunroof open , and activated the factory alarm system any open windows and including the sunroof would closed , driven by a 12V signal from the Central locking system, you could also close the windows / sunroof by putting the key in the door lock and turn and holding the key counter clockwise (Closure signal for this comes in on pin-4 , Pin-1,2,3 are for sunroof switch functions, pin-5 is permanent +12v, Pin-6 is Ground).

The 6 pin Motor for the Corrado was originally a Rockwell unit part nr:1H0959731,had a permanent +12V , Ground, and sunroof switch control inputs for open/close/tilt on pins 1,2,3,  this is the one that slid the sunroof fully back, that unit was dropped in 1996 , and ETKA suggested you use 3A0959731B, this is the Golf type one, made by Bosch, but I have found that this unit does not drive the Corrado sunroof all the way back, I have proven this by comparing both units in operation by counting the revolutions of the Motor cable Drive cog when driven to fully opened, the original Rockwell ( 1H095973)  turns approx 9 revolutions, the Bosch ( 3A0959731B) turns approx 8 & 1/4 revolutions, hence it does not open all the way.

The Rockwell unit has simple relays and diodes for motor drive control with limits set by micro switches, the Bosch unit is fully electronic and  appears to use a sensor sitting above the drive shaft that probably counts the revolutions, and passes these signals to some digital circuitry, which stops the motor accordingly, the noggins described by P3rks on a cam are most likely emergency power cuts to the motor in case the electronic controls fail, they do not appear to control the Motor movements normally.

So I suggest that  if you want to have the full open function, you need to source the 1H0959731 unit, sometimes these were fitted to Golf Mk3, Passat, Seat Alhambra, Ford Sharan's even, I attach a pic of the Rockwell unit.

s-l1600 (12).jpg

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Update to my previous entry, after getting hold of another motor 1H0959731 that looks exactly the same as my original, found the sunroof would not open all the way, just as in the original user topic, so took it apart and examined the Motor activation drive switch Cam wheel, and it was different to original, in that the Sunroof open microswitch is deactivated earlier than original, as the cam profile for this switch is different. Proved this by swapping cams, and that would swap the sunroof opening distances, so its a bit of a minefield as to whether you get the right one or not.

i attach a  pic to show the cam differences , the off white one cam wheel on the left of pic is the full opening Corrado one, the Grey one is the partial opening one (this motor came from a VW Sharan).

I intend to modify the profile on the grey on to match the earlier one and that should achieve full opening...(if only I had a life...I would have better things to do !)

Corrado Sunroof Motor Cams from 1H0959731.jpg

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Update.

Have now ground back the grey cam wheel to match the original white one, and tested ok, now that motor opens sunroof fully.

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That's really useful to know - I've noticed this as well with some of the spare replacement motors I have - must dig them  out. Was it tricky to get access to and remove/replace the cam wheel? I suppose if you have multiple motors where one is dead you could just swap over the cam wheel?

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41 minutes ago, twinbeltg60 said:

Update.

Have now ground back the grey cam wheel to match the original white one, and tested ok, now that motor opens sunroof fully.

Absolute quality information. I know i changed my motor a few years ago, but never looked into how far back it goes. Must check this 🤔

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22 hours ago, fendervg said:

That's really useful to know - I've noticed this as well with some of the spare replacement motors I have - must dig them  out. Was it tricky to get access to and remove/replace the cam wheel? I suppose if you have multiple motors where one is dead you could just swap over the cam wheel?

Hi, yes , i suppose you could as long as the failed one was originally from a Corrado and was the one as in my picture (Rockwell 1H0959731)  type.

If it was from a Corrado, then you should be ok , but if unsure , then follow the first parts of the below procedure and check the cam wheel colour, if its grey then its probably not from a Corrado...

To check / change the cam wheel gently prise off the black plastic cover, it has about 5 side clips , there is also a tricky one which is next to the white writing on my motor pic, you need a suitable screwdriver to  prise that open, levering in the direction  away from the actual motor unit, but first having started on the side clips.

When the cover is off remove the 4 stubby philips head pcb board screws, and gently lift up the board adjacent to the Cam wheel, you need to pull that away far enough to wriggle out the cam wheel holding the PCB sufficiently away from the unit to allow free movement, but without breaking the soldered motor connections , and swap over the cam wheel as necessary  , as noted above the original Corrado ones should be an off white colour.

When you reinstall , you need to line up the Cam before screwing down the pcb, for the alignment the Cam wheel has a hole, you need to line that up with the hole on the pcb, through to the outside casing, so jiggle the wheel around (holding the PCB sufficiently away from the unit to allow free movement, but without breaking the soldered motor connections), I attach a couple of pics, one shows the PCB  direction of lift (hopefully you understand i mean you  to rotate board up clockwise a little)  to get at the Cam wheel, and placement of alignment hole, and the other for interest, shows the actual microswitches that sit under and are operated by the cam wheel.

When you have aligned the wheel, say using a small screwdriver through the holes or a piece of steel wire etc, and are happy the holes line up, then reinsert and screw down the 4 philips screws, snap back on the cover, you may then then need to re synchronise the motor position, so connect its 6 pin connector from your sunroof cable, switch ignition on and operate the sunroof switch going in the close direction, then tilt, then back to close, so you can then fit the Motor (providing you have already got the sunroof in its closed position.

Hopefully all works.!Sunroof Pcb.jpg

 

Sunroof Motor Cam microswitches.jpg

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Just to add, you may notice that 2 of the PCB tracks on the pcb  look a bit frazzled, thats because they are, I had a transistor go short on the board, so had to glue the tracks back down onto the pcb, repair the break with solder , covered in araldite to keep everything together, replace the £0.16  transistor, but it does all work.

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In case you don't already know, the pin connections are :1 & 2 -Close / Open / Tilt signals from Sunroof Switch,  3 - Led Negative and return path for motor drive signals, 4 -  Full Closure +12v signal from Central locking, 5 - Permanent +12V, 6 - Battery negative.

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That's all extremely useful - thanks for your hard work and sharing/documenting the results.

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32 minutes ago, fendervg said:

That's all extremely useful - thanks for your hard work and sharing/documenting the results.

You are welcome, over the years I have benefited from all the great shared help and info on this site, so glad to maybe give something back.

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