I've Lost my Spark

[Al_2.0l_16v 0]

My 2.0l 16v 1993 corrado is currently dead !

It has no spark at plugs or at the king lead, but will turn over as long as u like.

 

So far I have changed the leads, the coil, and the distributer.

 

I have checked al the earths I can find.

 

What am I missing ?

 

And to make my mood worse, I had just changed the front discs, pads, oil, filters and tyres just to have it die on me.

 

Any help would be fantastic

[soother 0]

have you got an alarm and immob on the car

[randal 0]

Do you hear the pump priming on ignition turn?

 

Welcome to the forum btw :)

[RW1 0]

There is the hall effect sender in the distributor that may have gone duff.

 

Check as follows:

 

Pull fuse 18 to stop fuel pump priming.

 

Pull the plug of the side of the distributor. Switch on the ignition and check on the loose plug at the distributor that between the out pins there is 9 volts or greater. If yes, suspect the Hall Effect Sender inside the distributor. The plug on the side wall of the distributor is part of the plastic plate carrying the H.E.S.

 

Check wiring to this plug joint is in good condition.

 

------------------

 

The second item in the ignition chain is the transistor amplifier next to the coil. They can sometimes blow.

 

With ignition off, pull the connector off and check the 12 volt supply is there across the outer pins when the ignition is switched on.

 

Again check wiring condition to connector is not damaged.

 

-----------------------------------

 

Finally, when you changed the ignition leads recently, did you refit the No1 cylinder impulse sender?

[Al_2.0l_16v 0]

Hello everyone thanks for the replies

 

Soother - I have got an alarm immob on the car, but it seems to be working fine, my little red flash light turns off when I put the key in the ignition, is there any other ways to check it ?

 

Randal - What does the pump priming sound like ? and is it just in front of the DS rear wheel ? outside of the tank ?

 

RW1 - I have changer the whole Distributer (£80 down the drain) so I have a new hall effect sensor, but i havn't checked the wiring voltages, I will do so.

I will also check the transistor plug socket for voltages.

Finally I didn't change No1 cylinder lead because it had that thing on it, and i though it most be there for something, so I left it.

[Al_2.0l_16v 0]

Oh and another thing, every forum I read about this kind of problem people recomend changing the Crank shaft sensor, but I can't find one on my car?

Does the 16v have one or is it on the VR6 only?

[RW1 0]

Finally I didn't change No1 cylinder lead because it had that thing on it, and i though it most be there for something, so I left it.

 

That's the equivalent of the VR6 crank sensor!

[Al_2.0l_16v 0]

Hello RW1

 

I checked out the voltages you suggested, and there seems to be problems.

 

transistor amplifier next to the coil, voltage = 4.3v

 

hall effect sender in the distributor, voltage = 3.19v

 

Now if these are less than half what they are supposed to be there most be a problem further up the chain, what my be causing that ?

 

Battery is fine by the way, getting 12v out of that.

[RW1 0]

Oh, right, the transistor amplifier shouldn’t be 4.3volts across the unconnected plug pins (12 volts & earth).

 

What is it from pin 1 on the transistor amplifier plug, ignition on, and the meter’s negative is on the car’s earth. 12 volts or the same 4.3 volts?.

 

With ignition on, go on fuse 15 (10amps) and measure voltage relative to car earth. 12 volts or the same 4.3 volts?

 

If neither gives you 12 volts but lower, then my suspicions are that one of the switches in the ignition switch has gone in the steering column. If this is the case some other electrical circuits with ignition switched on will not be working properly such as turn signals, horn, reversing lights and HRW. The ECU is also on the same 12 volt circuit.

 

On the ignition switch at the column, the black with no colour stripe wire is the same igntion supply output as the transistor amplifier plug pin 1. 12 volts or something like 4 to 5 volts?

 

The Hall Effect sender connection derives it’s power on pin 3 of the distributor's plug. This derived from the ECU so I would expect a slight drop of the supply passing through the ECU. So your are right in suspecting the problem is further upstream.

 

If not the ignition switch, disconnect the battery to protect the ECU, disconnect the ECU, and reconnect the battery. Now switch on the ignition and check the fuse 15 voltage = 12 volts, check the voltage on pin 1 of the transistor amplifier, = 12 volts. If still 4.3 volts, then it still points to the ignition switch. If 12 volts with the ECU out of circuit, then the engine ECU has blown.

[Al_2.0l_16v 0]

Eeeek, i don't like the sounds of a blown ECU, I'm guessing they are a wedge to replace.

 

I'll do the checks you suggest tomorrow, if its not pissing down all day.

 

Here is a scary thing, i asked the stealers today if they had in stock the sensor that goes around the HT lead for No1 Cylinder, and they had no idea what I was talking about. They didn't even know it exsisted, any they are experts :(

[RW1 0]

I don't suspect the ECU but it completes the picture so that you can judge.

 

I suspect the ignition switch has broken one of it's switches, quickly confirmed by none of the listed items suchs as turn signals and horn working properly. Engine start is for instance on another switch inside the ignition switch so that is why the starter still works.

 

Disconnectinng the ECU is a way of taking out a "electrical load" if it is bad. The other "loads" on the circuit don't partly short or are not in circuit until activated by a switch such as the horn pad for the horn.

 

What I don't understand about this is why you are seeing 4.3 volts. I can't see where the voltage can back feed a leak to get this voltage level. That's why I have asked you to pull the ECU connector off as that's the most likely back feed route.

 

Phaw, dealers....... always educating them. And not just the Corrado either.

[Al_2.0l_16v 0]

News update,

 

I turned the ignition on and checked the:-

 

lights (full beam, dipped, + fog) and they all work fine.

reverseing lights work fine

Turn signals are fine

Horn works fine

fan works,

even the spoiler goes up and down on the swith.

 

So I then checked the coil transitor plug (pin1) and I got 3.8v between that and the earth (battery negative).

 

I then checked Fuse 15, and got 11.5 volts between that and earth.

 

And for good measure I checked the battery which is currently at 11.5v as well.

 

I didn't do the ecu test yet because its pissing down with rain and i am concerned about getting water all over the ECU (even if it is the cause of the problem).

 

Something weird happened when I was testing the fuse voltage though. The ignition was on and I was just touching the fuses in the box and the fuel pump relay went off (plus I could here the fuel pump prime). So I carryed on fiddling and found that the relay would turn over if I played with fuse 13 and a couple of other ones down the order.

 

Is this a sign of a knackered fuel relay or a knackered fuse box ? or a sign that the ecu is not very well?

 

This is become horribly complicated :(

[Al_2.0l_16v 0]

I just read a post on VAG-COM and i found my four pin connector next to under my gear stick cover, But are they right in saying you can only read the ABS on the 2.0L 16v and not the ECU ?

 

If I could read the ECU I guess it will give more clues to the state of play

[Supercharged 2]

Try a new ignition switch before anything else....

[Al_2.0l_16v 0]

Hello Supercharged, welcome to my problem ;)

 

Is the this the part you suggest "IGNITION STARTER SWITCH part No 92808"

Thats the listing on GSF, and its only a tenner :)

 

If thats the kiddy then a ten spot is a cheap part considering what else I have spent.

[RW1 0]

I just read a post on VAG-COM and i found my four pin connector next to under my gear stick cover, But are they right in saying you can only read the ABS on the 2.0L 16v and not the ECU ?

 

If I could read the ECU I guess it will give more clues to the state of play.

 

No, just they haven’t set VAG-COM up correctly or have the wrong version of VAG-COM software. 2.0ltr 1992 – 1994 ECU is one of the early digital VAG diagnostics ECU, a problem child when it comes to reading it.

 

ECU on a 16v 2.0ltr needs to be read with VAG-COM set at a baud rate fixed at 4,800 other wise it chokes up. Clearing it means turning the ignition off and on with a short delay for internal circuits to run down, (5 seconds). Go to options in VAG-COM and set it to that “Start Baud” is 4800. Save and check the program remembers to start at that speed by exiting VAG-COM and restarting it.

 

Secondly, the version of VAG-COM has to be v409,1 or higher. The commonly used v311.2 doesn’t work on this engine ECU.

 

Not much in a 16v engine ECU to read, 16 fault codes. Measuring blocks is poor with little other than some basics not related to this fault.

 

Other circuits OK then. Right, that means the supply volts is OK fuse 15 confirms the fuse/relay is being supplied with battery voltage OK.

 

Plug pin 1 on the transistor amp is an almost direct wire to the fuse/relay plate. It’s wire colour is black, no stripe as written before, 1.5mm. It goes into the fuse/relay plate via a connection inside the loom to plug G1 pin 4. It’s the middle white plug on the top row on the back of the fuse /relay plate.

 

Inside the loom, the connection also goes to the ECU on pin 25.

 

That’s why disconnecting the ECU from the circuit will isolate this wire. If pin 3 on the transistor amp goes to 11.5volts, then the ECU could be dragging down the voltage and therefore it is suspect. If the pin 3 voltage still gives low volts, then check the G1 fuse/relay plate output on pin 4. If volts OK on the fuse/relay plate pin, then suspect the loom connection otherwise, has G1 got corrosion on pin4.

 

Your voltage check on the fuses has eliminated the ignition switch!

[Al_2.0l_16v 0]

I FIXED AND THEN I BROKE IT AGAIN :)

 

I pulled out the fuse box to have a look for broken or lose wires and I didn't find any, but I left it sitting on the pedals because I thought I might need to look at it again. then I un plugged the battery and then the ecu.

 

I connected the battery again and tested voltage to the coil transistor and found 12v......

 

This I though was going to hurt, if the voltage is back with the ECU out did that mean the ECU was dead (dealers had told me a new one would be £575 inc).

 

So disconnected the battery and reconnected the ECU and then the battery, I then tested the voltage again and......

 

The 12v volts was still there :)

 

So I plugged everything again and gave her a go, she started up :D

 

So now I know it is a wire some where not connecting all the time.

 

So I put the fuse box back in place under the console and tried the car a third time, dead again :)

 

This means the fault has to be in or around the fuse box and is something not in the right place.

 

Its got to dark for me to find the exact wire tonight, but come saturday afternoon I'm hopefully going to be screaming around soming dual carriage way with my Corrado alive again.

 

I'll let you know when the jobs completed.

 

many thanks for the good advice about all the voltages, it was the key to the answer.