Need a new clutch, what else? To mod or not to mod?

[Joe M 0]

my clutch never slips on 6psi. Got a luk clutch which is a bit juddery when cold but doesn't slip.

 

Yeah the VR clutch is a strong old beast. Uprated ones not really required unless you are running some very major mods, in which case a centreforce or Helix Autosport kit might be in order.

 

Funny how they judder when cold....but that only seems to happen when you change out the original factory fit one.

 

 

My clutch has always had a judder since I got the car, about 6 months and 5000 miles ago. Pretty sure it was the original but I dont know if it could have been on its way out already that long ago?

Judders a lot worse now, even though it only slips with the foot down. Smells pretty bad too. :lol:

[Henny 0]

Hopefully a Quaiffe in a VW won't be as nasty as it is the Focus. Bumpsteer and tramlining is horrendous in the RS. You constantly fight the steering wheel.

 

The RS uses a clever type of diff which is much more active than a standard LSD. I don't know too much about it, or how it works, but that's why it's difficult to drive on the roads 'cos it's a track developed diff. A Quaiffe in a 'rado should be a very good upgrade, and is something I'm seriously looking into getting... 8)

[dubster82 0]

as far as im aware, that one of the things you kinda just have to live with on a diff..

 

Some are worse than others, but thats generally why they dont fit em to standard cars. But im gonna get one next year, theres a few differnt ones thay do i think :?

[Ess Three 0]

Hopefully a Quaiffe in a VW won't be as nasty as it is the Focus. Bumpsteer and tramlining is horrendous in the RS. You constantly fight the steering wheel.

 

The Focus's problems aren't all attributable to the Quaife diff.

The tramlining and bump steer have nothing tio do with the diff, more the fact that it runs too little castor, too high spring / damper rates and has too wide wheels effects it's ability to ride like a conventional Focus over the rough stuff.

 

A Quaife diff is not a handful on a properly set up car...the Focus seems to have too many perametrers optimised for smooth roads, and not enough concesions made to crappy back roads.

 

I'll be that the Focus will still be faster point to point than 90% of cars on here...it's just it gets bad press from people who get into it expecting it to be as smooth as a standard model

 

You put a Quaife into a VW with very stiff suspension and wide wheels and tyres and watch it tramilne too.

 

...and besides, drive a car with a clutch and plate type diff...then you'll know all about holding onto the steering wheel!

[Ess Three 0]

The RS uses a clever type of diff which is much more active than a standard LSD. I don't know too much about it, or how it works, but that's why it's difficult to drive on the roads 'cos it's a track developed diff.

 

Let me try and assist here:

 

The Quaife ATB LSD is not a Limited slip Differential (LSD) in the previously accelted sense of the term. The Quaife is an Automitic Torque Biasing (ATB) diff...it works be using a series of worm gears and drive gears that allow the diff to mechanically send the torque to the slower of the two spinning axles, to reduce wheelspin and equal out the drive. It's also continaully working...continually altering the amount of drive that goes to each axle as the spinning forces of the diff load and unload from side to side...basically it uses gears to send the most drive possible to the axle that can most use it.

 

It's difficult to explain without having a split diff in front of you....or a diagram...of which I have neither!

 

 

A true LSD is a diff that progressively (or not so progressively!) locks at a pre determined amount of slip...thereby providing a 'locked' axle above this point.

As an example...a 17.5% LSD will allow the outside wheel to turn 17.5% faster than the inside before locking the axle up...this is achieved be using a set of clutches and plates and a set of 'ramps' to set the lock...once set the diff is a purely passive device...it locks or it unlocks..simple as that.

 

You plant the foot with a clutch and plate LSD and one wheel starts to spin...up to, say, 17.5% faster than the other wheel, then it locks...and you'd better be holding on tight as you are in for a fight!

The clutch and plate diff also locks on braking...the setting (say 17.5%) works on power on and power off...which actually makes it MORE predicatble on a track than a Quaife ATB type.

 

Clutch and plate LSDs can also be uprated...I ran a 17.5% LSD years ago in my Nova...ended up doing trackdays, sprints and hillclimbs and it was great with a 17.5% LSD made by ZF...but I got greedy and wanted more grip, more locking...so I uprated it to a 40% LSD. You needed arms likeArnie to hold it in a straight line (no power steering) and you could hardly park it! But the grip was sublime.

 

you also need to service Clutch And Plate type diffs, as they wear (the clutches and plates wear)

There is no servicing required for an ATB type.

 

 

 

So back to LSD types...

 

Basically there are 3 basic types:

 

Automitic Torque Biasing type - Quaife, Standard Honda Integra Type-R, Focus RS, Peloquin etc

 

Clutch And Plate type - Gemini, VW Motorsport (Gemini), ZF, Mugen, to name but a few.

 

Ferguson Viscious Coupling type - as fitted to a Series 1 Ford RS Turbo...best forgotten as they were unpredictable and crap!

 

 

 

Of them all...in my experience...

 

The Ferguson type is the worst..unpredicatabe, unreliable and not particularly nice to drive with.

 

Clutch And Plate is the best for a track...very snatchy, very aggressive, hard to park with, rough on tyres...but for ultimate grip for track use...a revelation!

Why do you think people change from ATBs to Clutch And Plate types for track use (Racing Honda Integra Type-Rs for example)

 

ATB is the best compromise...great grip, easy to live with, not noisy...OK it tugs a bit until you get used to it...but it's not too much of a hardship.

anyone that complaines about a Quaife should try driving a tight Clutch And Plate LSD...

 

 

So to counter Henny's comment: A Quaife is not a track developed diff - it's a road and track developed diff...with more road than track!....a lot more so for the road than the next alternative.

 

 

 

Having used them all over the years..I can say with honesty that the Quaife is a fantastic product...well worth the money.

But if I were building a track only car...it's be a proper Clutch And Plate type LSD I's fit.

[Henny 0]

Cool, 8)

 

Cheers Ess Three, I always wondered about LSDs and am now a little bit wiser... 8)

 

Thanks for posting that and clearing things up a bit... :D

[Ess Three 0]

Cool, 8)

 

Cheers Ess Three, I always wondered about LSDs and am now a little bit wiser... 8)

 

Thanks for posting that and clearing things up a bit... :D

 

My pleasure...

Pleased you found it informative! 8)

[dubster82 0]

ATB for mine! :lol:

[Joe M 0]

Let me try and assist here:

 

The Quaife ATB LSD is not a Limited slip Differential (LSD) in the previously accelted sense of the term. The Quaife is an Automitic Torque Biasing (ATB) diff...it works be using a series of worm gears and drive gears that allow the diff to mechanically send the torque to the slower of the two spinning axles, to reduce wheelspin and equal out the drive. It's also continaully working...continually altering the amount of drive that goes to each axle as the spinning forces of the diff load and unload from side to side...basically it uses gears to send the most drive possible to the axle that can most use it.

 

It's difficult to explain without having a split diff in front of you....or a diagram...of which I have neither!

 

If anyone wants to know how it works, follow this link. It shows the peloquin diff, but thats almost the exact same thing as a Quaife anyway.

 

http://www.houseofthud.com/cartech/EC-P ... ticle.html