1.8 16v brake upgrage questions...

[hyland770 0]

This weekend i was having ago in my godfathers VR6, what i noticed apart from the vast increase in torque compared to my 16v was how well the thing stopped! The brakes were incredible :shock:

 

So... i know this has been asked before but i need some clarity:

 

- what size are my brakes atm i have a 1990 1.8 16v.

- I know theres a "how to" for 288 REAR brake upgrade but what if i want bigger brakes on the front too, can you put 288 on the front aswell as the back?

- Whats size are the vr6 brakes and what size do people usually go for when upgrading the 16v brakes?

 

I know its a pain in the ass having to answer the same questions over and over but like i said i needed clarity. and having all my answers in the same place will make it less complicated for me. I have always thought that having powerful brakes is almost as much fun as having a superfast engine so looking forward to this upgrade, any help would be appreciated, cheers guys!

[Supercharged 2]

I wouldn't bother with the rears and the 288's are 5 stud only so won't fit.

 

The usual upgrade path is to fit the standard 280mm VR6 / G60 brakes to the front using carriers and capipers from either car and G60 (4 stud) discs.

[bristolbaron 11]

Depending what you want to spend and what wheels you want to fit..

 

Option 1:

G60 280mm fronts/MK4 Rears

 

Option 2:

Audi S2 280mm Twin pot fronts/MK4 Rears

 

Option 3:

Ibiza Cupra 305mm Brembos/280mm Rears

 

All have been covered numerous times, use the search to find out more.

[hyland770 0]

Thanks for that guys!

 

Right, so im after 280mm brakes then (what size are my standard discs at then?)

 

- is it okay to do fronts with standard back and then when funds allow do the backs or is it better to both at the same time?

- will brakes from a mk3 golf vr6 fit?

 

sorry to be a pain i just dont seem to be able to get on with the search function on this forum

[hyland770 0]

forgot to mention id like to keep my borbets on so brakes need to fit behind those, dont mind using spacers though to make them fit.

[davidwort 0]

Thanks for that guys!

 

Right, so im after 280mm brakes then (what size are my standard discs at then?)

 

- is it okay to do fronts with standard back and then when funds allow do the backs or is it better to both at the same time?

- will brakes from a mk3 golf vr6 fit?

 

sorry to be a pain i just dont seem to be able to get on with the search function on this forum

 

standard 16v brakes are 356mm vented discs, don't bother upgrading rears, the fronts do most of the work.

front brakes changed to 280mm disks use basically the same caliper (just slightly wider) and will be a bit more resistant to fade but pad choice is more important as the pads are the saem size but marginally thicker on the VR and G60.

 

early mk3 golf vr6 calipers are 280mm but later cars use 288's which have better, bigger (ATE) calipers anbd pads but disks are not available in 4 stud as said above.

 

I'd seriously consider new 256mm standardf fronts but using quality disks and pads and renewing calipers etc where required, with the right pads you can improve feel and bite and make the brakes feel a lot better, G60 280's won't improve this aspect of the brakes, as I said above they just provide slightly better heat dissipation for extended and repeated braking, it all depends on what is most important to you.

[hyland770 0]

Thanks for that guys!

 

Right, so im after 280mm brakes then (what size are my standard discs at then?)

 

- is it okay to do fronts with standard back and then when funds allow do the backs or is it better to both at the same time?

- will brakes from a mk3 golf vr6 fit?

 

sorry to be a pain i just dont seem to be able to get on with the search function on this forum

 

standard 16v brakes are 356mm vented discs, don't bother upgrading rears, the fronts do most of the work.

front brakes changed to 280mm disks use basically the same caliper (just slightly wider) and will be a bit more resistant to fade but pad choice is more important as the pads are the saem size but marginally thicker on the VR and G60.

 

early mk3 golf vr6 calipers are 280mm but later cars use 288's which have better, bigger (ATE) calipers anbd pads but disks are not available in 4 stud as said above.

 

I'd seriously consider new 256mm standardf fronts but using quality disks and pads and renewing calipers etc where required, with the right pads you can improve feel and bite and make the brakes feel a lot better, G60 280's won't improve this aspect of the brakes, as I said above they just provide slightly better heat dissipation for extended and repeated braking, it all depends on what is most important to you.

 

Funny you should say this as it is feel and bite im after, when i put the brakes on in my godfathers vr6 it felt like hitting a brick wall and id like to replicate this feeling, if i can do it using the standard setup then great but i would imagine to have the feeling the vr6 did i would have to use the same setup as the vr6? if i was going to replace the brake set up then am i right in thinking ill need: new calipers, new carriers, new discs, pads and may aswell get braided lines aswell, is that all the kit i would need?

[davidwort 0]

From all the cars I've driven, my 1.8 16v with non-abs 256mm brakes has the best feel, bite and progressive braking.

The front disks are relatively cheap brembo disks and Pagid pads, the calipers are all in good condition, only the rears have actually been replaced, pressure bleeding made a good difference.

Non ABS cars always seem to have better feel to me, so a non ABS 16v should be good.

If you do want to fit 280's to the front then all you need is the correct carriers and preferably the G60/VR calipers too, you can use the 16v calipers but they aren't wide enough to fit the slightly thicker G60 pads without sanding them down a couple of mm as the pads and disks on the 280's are slightly thicker.

Check the hose fittings but I think standard G60/VR hoses will do on the front, the hoses did change in length at some point in production, possibly due to a caliper revision on the 280's?

[hyland770 0]

From all the cars I've driven, my 1.8 16v with non-abs 256mm brakes has the best feel, bite and progressive braking.

The front disks are relatively cheap brembo disks and Pagid pads, the calipers are all in good condition, only the rears have actually been replaced, pressure bleeding made a good difference.

Non ABS cars always seem to have better feel to me, so a non ABS 16v should be good.

If you do want to fit 280's to the front then all you need is the correct carriers and preferably the G60/VR calipers too, you can use the 16v calipers but they aren't wide enough to fit the slightly thicker G60 pads without sanding them down a couple of mm as the pads and disks on the 280's are slightly thicker.

Check the hose fittings but I think standard G60/VR hoses will do on the front, the hoses did change in length at some point in production, possibly due to a caliper revision on the 280's?

 

cheers for the info been a massive help! get paid at the end of the week so will buy some new toys then, i think once iv got all the parts fitting should be fairly easy as its kinda obvious what needs to go where!

[hyland770 0]

okay how does this setup sound:

 

MK3 golf vr6 Calipers and carriers, G60 discs and EBC green stuff brake pads, that should all fit and give good braking results right?

[davidwort 0]

okay how does this setup sound:

 

MK3 golf vr6 Calipers and carriers, G60 discs and EBC green stuff brake pads, that should all fit and give good braking results right?

 

early mk3 golf VR calipers, just make sure you don't end up with ATE 288's (1994 on?)

 

actually mk2 2L 8v GTI and 2.0 16v (ABF) golfs have the same 280's (early ones again.)

[hyland770 0]

okay how does this setup sound:

 

MK3 golf vr6 Calipers and carriers, G60 discs and EBC green stuff brake pads, that should all fit and give good braking results right?

 

early mk3 golf VR calipers, just make sure you don't end up with ATE 288's (1994 on?)

 

actually mk2 2L 8v GTI and 2.0 16v (ABF) golfs have the same 280's (early ones again.)

 

yep the set of calipers i have an eye on are from an early mk3 golf vr6 and are defo 280's. I need the carriers too tho right? and then g60 discs as there 4 stud, this should all work shouldnt it!?

[davidwort 0]

yep, sounds good.

[hyland770 0]

yep, sounds good.

 

once again thanks for all your help, ill get the parts ordered on friday then do a write up when its all done. :)

[bristolbaron 11]

yep, sounds good.

 

once again thanks for all your help, ill get the parts ordered on friday then do a write up when its all done. :)

 

get yourself some braided goodridge hoses and do a fluid change at the same time whilst you're at it..

[hyland770 0]

been doing a bit more reading up on this here conversion, am i going to need a vr6 brake master cyinder to cope with bigger brakes?

I've read that people think that the 16v one doesnt create enough pressure and therefore the brakes dont work properly as my 16v is non abs...

[davidwort 0]

been doing a bit more reading up on this here conversion, am i going to need a vr6 brake master cyinder to cope with bigger brakes?

I've read that people think that the 16v one doesnt create enough pressure and therefore the brakes dont work properly as my 16v is non abs...

 

shouldn't be a problem, calipers are basically the same 256/280

[hyland770 0]

been doing a bit more reading up on this here conversion, am i going to need a vr6 brake master cyinder to cope with bigger brakes?

I've read that people think that the 16v one doesnt create enough pressure and therefore the brakes dont work properly as my 16v is non abs...

 

shouldn't be a problem, calipers are basically the same 256/280

 

thanks again :salute: i guess if they are bad its not that hard to fit the master cylinder anyway! just eyeing up some tasty brembo discs to complete the parts list, get paid tommorrow so hopefully it will be done by next week sometime.

one final question as my 16v doesnt have abs is there any danger of the brakes just locking up as there much bigger? i dont think there is but someone made a comment about it and its been playing on my mind recently...

[davidwort 0]

I can lock the brakes on my 256's if I press hard enough, but the 280's should be fine, that can always be altered by pad selection but I've never heard of it being a problem.

[hyland770 0]

just bought the carriers and calipers off of "daves16v" will get a write up done when they arrive.