Can I fit a 65mm pulley with these mods?

[munkay 0]

I have the following engine mods on my G60:

 

Induction Kit

Decat/Exhaust

SNS 'Stage 5' chip

68mm Pulley

3.5 Bar FPR

Stage 4 Charger

Boost Return removed

 

Would it be worth my while fitting a smaller 65mm pulley to this? I really would like to to get the extra low down torque and a few more horses from higher up. My concern is that the fuelling won't be fully up to this?

 

Also, should I be looking to reroute the ISV to gain full psi potential? (especially with a 65mm) as I have read several pieces about it limiting max boost. Seems to be a fair bit of conflicting info so opinions welcome please :)

[Jim 1]

When did you last have the charger rebuilt mate?

 

From what I understand with 68mm a rebuild is every 25-35,000 miles.. and with a 65mm pulley it'll need doing even sooner than that.

 

It seems like you have a pretty much identical set of mods to me, but I have been advised to upgrade to red top injectors as the current ones are about at their limit. Maybe its something you might want to consider before getting the 65mm pulley done?

[GazzaG60 0]

id get some red tops in with the 65mm. wait for bilal to make the new chip that he's donig at the moment.

 

mine is a tad rich still but will hopefully be addressed by bilals tuning.

 

get the reds to cover your ass as you never know how good the old greens are.

[W3RKD 0]

id get some red tops in with the 65mm. wait for bilal to make the new chip that he's donig at the moment.

 

mine is a tad rich still but will hopefully be addressed by bilals tuning.

 

get the reds to cover your ass as you never know how good the old greens are.

 

GAZ do u have a AFR plot ? would be intrested in seeing how it compares to some of ours.

[GsixT 0]

How much are these red tops and how hard to install?

[Dubcharged 0]

Its always good to change those old injectors for a nice new set anyway, 10 year old injectors probably have had their day especially if you gonna be pushing them harder.

 

Watch this space for the optimised red top chip! ETA 5 days

 

:D

[munkay 0]

Jims16v - chager was rebuilt about 8000 miles ago so ok there ;)

 

Ok thanks for the respones, how much would I be looking at for a set of reds?

[Dubcharged 0]

You can get a set from either myself or Darren. PM for a price.

[W3RKD 0]

£110 per set from g-werks or pitstop.

[h100vw 0]

£110 per set from g-werks or pitstop.

 

Did the shipment arrive Darren? I haven't checked the tracking number.

 

Gavin

[GazzaG60 0]

yay a optimized red top chip. more power less fuel.

have to say the chips have got better as the go along testement to SNS development and know how. after all bilal aint seen the car hes just going off what ive said. my personal opinion is that the older chips may be better with a 3bar reg. i havent tried it yet so.. there may be issues on boost at part throttle with the 3 bar though. Bilal was saying the fuel pump strength may be a factor.

 

Gman-i aint got a graph as im lazy. i was gonna get it done but im lazy. ive had the wideband up it so i know it aint lean if anything its too rich which aint good either. i get some smoke sometimes and plugs get sooted up. my charger is loosing a fraction of boost which im deffo addressing this month. even so at around 2-3krpm WOT(10psi) i get a smoke until around 5k(14psi+) when itclears. the wideband shows rich(10:1) at 2-4krpm going to 11-11.5 higher in the revs.

[W3RKD 0]

£110 per set from g-werks or pitstop.

 

Did the shipment arrive Darren? I haven't checked the tracking number.

 

Gavin

 

hopfully today as i running low on current stocks.

[LowG 0]

what wideband do you have gazzag60?

 

To munkay, you really need to go by the boost you are producing and not by the pulley size as some chargers produce more boost than others due to how healthy they are. Its advisable that above 15psi bigger injectors to be used like 320cc, an adjustable fpr would help to fine tune your mixiture. You need to be aware of the isv as like you said it leaks at higher pressures.

 

rgds

[beavis 0]

what wideband do you have gazzag60?

 

To munkay, you really need to go by the boost you are producing and not by the pulley size as some chargers produce more boost than others due to how healthy they are. Its advisable that above 15psi bigger injectors to be used like 320cc, an adjustable fpr would help to fine tune your mixiture. You need to be aware of the isv as like you said it leaks at higher pressures.

 

rgds

 

Boost figures do not come into the equation, they area rough indication, flow however does. A car registering below 15psi manifold pressure but with a wild cam, flowed head and exhaust etc may require higher flowing injectors even though the manifold pressure seems low, hence more air is in the cylinders not the manifold. Air fuel ratio is the true indicator.

Adjustable FPR's are a accident waiting to happen on a forced induction motor. They do not work on vacume and their rising rate is competly different to that of what barry bosch took all his time and maths in creating. Fine tuning mixture is a little more complex on fuel injected cars to that of old skool carbs where you could twiddle a screw adjust your mixture.

As stated many times in the past, ISV's do not leak, they bleed, they bleed because they are told to bleed by the ECU, it is not a fault, just a inherent part of the digifant system. Stopping them bleeding is a process we are overcoming from a electronics point of view and not mearly a check valve. A check valve physically stops boost bleeding, but starts a domino effect where the ECU interprits no loss of boost as a problem and retards ignition timing, status quo, loss of power. Do ya home work.

[W3RKD 0]

what wideband do you have gazzag60?

 

To munkay, you really need to go by the boost you are producing and not by the pulley size as some chargers produce more boost than others due to how healthy they are. Its advisable that above 15psi bigger injectors to be used like 320cc, an adjustable fpr would help to fine tune your mixiture. You need to be aware of the isv as like you said it leaks at higher pressures.

 

rgds

 

mate.. where are you getting this info from that you are dishing out to people ..it is completely unfounded and could acutally cause peoples g60's to run worse than before they spent all there hard earnt money on these parts... as to isv leaking i have posted a comprehensive post explaining how the isv works it might be worth re reading it..

[LowG 0]

what wideband do you have gazzag60?

 

To munkay, you really need to go by the boost you are producing and not by the pulley size as some chargers produce more boost than others due to how healthy they are. Its advisable that above 15psi bigger injectors to be used like 320cc, an adjustable fpr would help to fine tune your mixiture. You need to be aware of the isv as like you said it leaks at higher pressures.

 

rgds

 

Boost figures do not come into the equation, they area rough indication, flow however does. A car registering below 15psi manifold pressure but with a wild cam, flowed head and exhaust etc may require higher flowing injectors even though the manifold pressure seems low, hence more air is in the cylinders not the manifold. Air fuel ratio is the true indicator.

Adjustable FPR's are a accident waiting to happen on a forced induction motor. They do not work on vacume and their rising rate is competly different to that of what barry bosch took all his time and maths in creating. Fine tuning mixture is a little more complex on fuel injected cars to that of old skool carbs where you could twiddle a screw adjust your mixture.

As stated many times in the past, ISV's do not leak, they bleed, they bleed because they are told to bleed by the ECU, it is not a fault, just a inherent part of the digifant system. Stopping them bleeding is a process we are overcoming from a electronics point of view and not mearly a check valve. A check valve physically stops boost bleeding, but starts a domino effect where the ECU interprits no loss of boost as a problem and retards ignition timing, status quo, loss of power. Do ya home work.

 

ok you guys have made ur points which are valid to a degree but if you had taken a minute and read the first post by munkay you would see he doesnt mention any cams or porting to the head. By this I have made my conclusion that it is standard items he is running so i made my reply around that. Yes we can go into depth about how cams and porting and even to how long/big are you boost pipes can affect ur boost levels but thats not what is disscused here. For that you can open another thread instead of hijack this one.

Sorry for being unclear about the isv issue, when i said leaks i didnt mean leaking as a malfunction, i meant to say that the boost its bleed off by the ecu nas we all know this.

As for the FPR im running a webber vacum control fpr which works in the same principles as a normal FPR, the only thing is that you can control the level of the diaphram in the fpr giving you the low to high fuel pressure regulator.

You cannot simply guess that by adding a 65mm pulley you will need uprated fuel system. In most cases a healthy charger can produce around 14-17 psi on 65mm pulley depending on its spec on a stock unported, uncamed head ...........

Im not trying to missinform anyone, im simply giving free unbiased advice.

 

many thanks

[exturbo2003 0]

what wideband do you have gazzag60?

 

To munkay, you really need to go by the boost you are producing and not by the pulley size as some chargers produce more boost than others due to how healthy they are. Its advisable that above 15psi bigger injectors to be used like 320cc, an adjustable fpr would help to fine tune your mixiture. You need to be aware of the isv as like you said it leaks at higher pressures.

 

rgds

 

Boost figures do not come into the equation, they area rough indication, flow however does. A car registering below 15psi manifold pressure but with a wild cam, flowed head and exhaust etc may require higher flowing injectors even though the manifold pressure seems low, hence more air is in the cylinders not the manifold. Air fuel ratio is the true indicator.

Adjustable FPR's are a accident waiting to happen on a forced induction motor. They do not work on vacume and their rising rate is competly different to that of what barry bosch took all his time and maths in creating. Fine tuning mixture is a little more complex on fuel injected cars to that of old skool carbs where you could twiddle a screw adjust your mixture.

As stated many times in the past, ISV's do not leak, they bleed, they bleed because they are told to bleed by the ECU, it is not a fault, just a inherent part of the digifant system. Stopping them bleeding is a process we are overcoming from a electronics point of view and not mearly a check valve. A check valve physically stops boost bleeding, but starts a domino effect where the ECU interprits no loss of boost as a problem and retards ignition timing, status quo, loss of power. Do ya home work.

 

ok you guys have made ur points which are valid to a degree but if you had taken a minute and read the first post by munkay you would see he doesnt mention any cams or porting to the head. By this I have made my conclusion that it is standard items he is running so i made my reply around that. Yes we can go into depth about how cams and porting and even to how long/big are you boost pipes can affect ur boost levels but thats not what is disscused here. For that you can open another thread instead of hijack this one.

Sorry for being unclear about the isv issue, when i said leaks i didnt mean leaking as a malfunction, i meant to say that the boost its bleed off by the ecu nas we all know this.

As for the FPR im running a webber vacum control fpr which works in the same principles as a normal FPR, the only thing is that you can control the level of the diaphram in the fpr giving you the low to high fuel pressure regulator.

You cannot simply guess that by adding a 65mm pulley you will need uprated fuel system. In most cases a healthy charger can produce around 14-17 psi on 65mm pulley depending on its spec on a stock unported, uncamed head ...........

Im not trying to missinform anyone, im simply giving free unbiased advice.

 

many thanks

 

 

okay lads this is how i see it

 

lowG

advice is always welcome and so is a differant view on things, but, when you give out the advice dont assume that you have worked it out that he had no head work or cams, and that is why you gave out the advice you did, because someone else might not have picked up on that and taken your word as is written. please try and be more accurate then these kind of discussions wont happen.

I have too agree with beavis on the amount of air in the cylinders not the amount of boost is the most critical factor on the amount of fuel needed for a good afr.

not sure on the adjustable FPR as have run them on cossies which are vacuum controlled on a forced induction system, and work well,BUT the big prob is people fitting them thenselves and not having the ability or the equipment to set them up properly and killing there motor in the process.

as you have addressed ISV's dont leak they bleed boost so please dont use the word LEAK again, tho they might leak a bit when they are old and worn, but thats a differant subject.

[Dubcharged 0]

I usually advise people to go for the bigger injectors if they see more than 16psi which is usually on the 65mm pulley. Also if someone is cammed and ported then 15psi would warrant the bigger injectors. This is from my experience with writing the maps as i know how much we have to push the standard injectors at 1 bar boost on a standard block and head. Yes it is all about flow and the manifold pressure along with the mods (and some experience) give a good indication of this.

 

But like i've said, its still a good idea to get new injectors anyway.