power window circuit

[deag 0]

please help....

having spent most of friday trying to figure the mess of wiring that I found behind the driver's door trim thanks to some aftermarket "mods" on my new C, I have a question.

Can someone tell me how many wires should be going to each window switch? Mine seem to have six, but the circuit diagram I have suggests you only need five.

Of the six, two go to the motor, two seem to be returns (don't see why I need two), and two seem to be feeds (one for motor, one for light).

I am suffering from a previous owner's "fix" of the windows, I have three different window switches, and a mess of wiring to boot.

My passenger window doesn't move, from either switch, which is why I originally started investigating this one...

 

cheers,

 

deag.

[Supercharged 2]

Hmmm, I know the wiring is completly different for early and late cars....

[kvwloon 0]

Good luck, I'd be interested in the result too. I seem to have a set-uip that may have been put in by the original dealers, with as you say six wires not five. Reckon it will be to do with the later cars having a window control box, so you may find having the box deltes the need for an additional return from the switches...BTW the switches I have are early type, look VW, but the wires are soldered to the back of the switch. The function on them isn't particularly positive, has anyone got any replacements going cheap? Must be early type, and with six wires soldered to the switch rather than the 5 wire VW plug-in type.

[davidwort 0]

Good luck, I'd be interested in the result too. I seem to have a set-uip that may have been put in by the original dealers, with as you say six wires not five. Reckon it will be to do with the later cars having a window control box, so you may find having the box deltes the need for an additional return from the switches...BTW the switches I have are early type, look VW, but the wires are soldered to the back of the switch. The function on them isn't particularly positive, has anyone got any replacements going cheap? Must be early type, and with six wires soldered to the switch rather than the 5 wire VW plug-in type.

 

That's interesting, I always thought my 'soldered to the switch' wires were part of a cheap aftermarket system as the window regulators were crap non VAG ones (without the lifting arms :shock: ) -which I've subsequently replaced with the proper ones (grazed knuckles to prove it :x )

As you say, the switches themselves appear less clicky and positive compared to others I've tried from passats of a similar age but look identical from the front, also my windows are permanently wired live :shock: :shock: which I think is a result of a not-so-clever alarm fitter as the Gemini alarm closes the windows when set.

 

David.

[bigpants baby 0]

Its quite easy to change early corrado elec window switches to the later type ones (loads better)

[deag 0]

David,

From my initial investigations, I think the windows are always live anyway, so can be operated without ignition. there's a 20A fuse you can remove, which will kill this feed, if it's really troubling you.

 

kvwloon,

I've a complete mix of switches, one with six wires to the back (which seems to have been the way for pre 1992 VWs), one with five plugs, which ain't wired in, and another unknown switch, with seven terminals (one wire serving two). I've never really noticed much of an improvement from six to five terminals, to be honest, but given the "love" my C has seen in it's life, this may be understandable! :roll:

 

If I ever get the pass window working, I'll update....

 

cheers,

 

deag.

[kvwloon 0]

bigpants baby, Come on, your teasing me now! :lol: More info please! Wouldn't I and deag, need to source a window controller and wire in new genuine VW switches from there? At the moment I'm in the same boat as deag, with what appear to be non-genuine switches directly wired to the car with no controller . VW ones come with proper connectors and five wires only....so how to wire them in...... :?:

[bigpants baby 0]

all you need is the later corrado switches,ill have to take my door panels off & have a nosey,i have changed to later window switches,sunroof push button switch(1995) & later corrado mirror switch.

[kvwloon 0]

bigpants baby, Cheers in advance, would love to get some decent proper VW switches in!

[deag 0]

no controller?

really?

I'm a bit confused. I think I have a faulty controller, because I know my pass window switches have power, seem to make the appropriate contact, but they won't move the window. However, after a bit of messing last night, I get the pass window moving from the driver's window switch. So I think the controller for pass window is buggered.

...presuming I have one!!!

Having moved the window for the first time in probably two years, it did need a good few gos to unjam itselt. Has anyone else had experience of sticky windows? Mine are very slow on the way up....

 

looking forward to the advice bigpants!!

 

deag.

[Henny 0]

the two switches for the passenger window should be wired in parallel... if one switch works and the other doesn't, then you either have a broken wire from the non-working switch, or a dead switch... swap the 2 switches over and see if it works then so you can work out if it's a wire or the switch... 8)

[deag 0]

neither switch works.

I swapped the motors over, so ran the pass window off the driver's side switch circuit. So I know the glass moves, but I think the controller (if I have one) must be knackered for the pass window circuit!

 

deag.

[davidwort 0]

all you need is the later corrado switches,ill have to take my door panels off & have a nosey,i have changed to later window switches,sunroof push button switch(1995) & later corrado mirror switch.

 

I'm trying to work all this out to put in the later 5 wire switches, but my only wiring diagram (Passat Haynes) is not even close.

Anyone have any explanation for the six wire (soldered) versus 5 wire (VW) switches, so far all I'm totally sure about is the + and earth for the light in the switches.

Also, I seem to have a second wire joined to the live feed for the switches in the door which doesn't seem to affect anything if disconnected and just goes straight back out of the door again :?:

I've got to tidy all of this wiring up anyway as it's a bodge and a birds nest at the moment :roll: , would love to get hold of the correct wiring colours/diagram or a good description for the early C Windows and motors as this is really giving me brain ache!

 

cheers,

David.

[kvwloon 0]

davidwort, Join the club mate, looks like that's at least three of us with soldered switches and birds-nests in the doors, so don't be too dis-heartened! :roll: Just think of it as having a 'special' car. :lol: I if ever work it out I'll let you know the details, but so far have 'smoked ' several VW 5pin switches :shock: trying to work it out.

 

'Ah, I love the smell of burning plastic in the morning!'

[deag 0]

Guys,

I might be able to help!!

I finally figured what was with my switches. :lol: The pass circuit is a bit strange...

:roll: :roll: davidwort, the reason you have a wire coming in the live feed and straight back out again, is it is the live feed for the switch in the pass door. Have a look at the resistance between them (remove the fuse first). It should be 2 knats whiskers either side of 0.

Basically, the driver's window switch is straight forward. To the switch from the car you have two 12V feeds (Red for the motor, red and blue for the switch light), and 2 GND wires (both brown in my car). Then you have two wires from the switch to the motor (both blue/black in my car). For a six-pin plug, the blue/black wires go to the two outer pins, then the two 12V feeds, then in the centre the returns. Not figured yet where each feed should go, or that it matters! Basically, if your windows go down when you switch the lights on, but the switch is permanently lit up, change the two feeds!!!!

 

the pass circuit is a bit different.

In the driver's door you have a switch with 10 wires coming to it, four of which go over to the switch in the pass door (two feeds, two GNDs). These four are where I was getting confused. And still am, a bit. Let me look at it tonight and I'll figure how it should be, and get back to you.

might even do a "how 2" when I get a digital camera on the go!

 

hope this has helped a bit, keep pestering me if I forget to fully explain this tomorrow!

[kvwloon 0]

An illustrated 'how to fit proper VW switches in place of the soldered' would be much appreciated....ideally with piccies for the electrical thicko's like me!

[kvwloon 0]

P.S Are any of the more electrically minded among us able to sort out how to wire the wiring DEAG details above (for the early switches) to be connected to the 'later' proper switches?

[davidwort 0]

Guys,

I might be able to help!!

I finally figured what was with my switches. :lol: The pass circuit is a bit strange...

:roll: :roll: davidwort, the reason you have a wire coming in the live feed and straight back out again, is it is the live feed for the switch in the pass door. Have a look at the resistance between them (remove the fuse first). It should be 2 knats whiskers either side of 0.

Basically, the driver's window switch is straight forward. To the switch from the car you have two 12V feeds (Red for the motor, red and blue for the switch light), and 2 GND wires (both brown in my car). Then you have two wires from the switch to the motor (both blue/black in my car). For a six-pin plug, the blue/black wires go to the two outer pins, then the two 12V feeds, then in the centre the returns. Not figured yet where each feed should go, or that it matters! Basically, if your windows go down when you switch the lights on, but the switch is permanently lit up, change the two feeds!!!!

 

the pass circuit is a bit different.

In the driver's door you have a switch with 10 wires coming to it, four of which go over to the switch in the pass door (two feeds, two GNDs). These four are where I was getting confused. And still am, a bit. Let me look at it tonight and I'll figure how it should be, and get back to you.

might even do a "how 2" when I get a digital camera on the go!

 

hope this has helped a bit, keep pestering me if I forget to fully explain this tomorrow!

 

cheers very much for the info, I'm trying to build up some sketches of my wiring bit by bit and any more info would be great, I can't bring myself to investigate the fusebox area any more at the moment, I've already seen a few 'Scotch Locks' and it doesn't bode well!

ta,

David.

[deag 0]

kvwloon,

I think your earlier assumptions are right. You can't fit five pin switches in place of six pin switches without the controller somewhere in the loop.

So that means changing the wiring loom, as I think the controller has an extra fuse in the circuit. I can't say for sure, I'm only familiar with my car, which has the six-pin version. If bigpants or someone knows better, then maybe you can...

 

deag.

[kvwloon 0]

deag, I think your'e right to think I'm right! :) I'll be looking out for a controller on Ebay I reckon! Another job for the list. :roll:

[davidwort 0]

deag, I think your'e right to think I'm right! :) I'll be looking out for a controller on Ebay I reckon! Another job for the list. :roll:

 

chaps, for the controller you need part number 191 959 875, good thing is this is the same part number for passats with front only electric windows, I'd guess that you could probably use the passat 4 door unit too 357 959 875

Will be hunting the scrappy's ASAP and will pick up more than one if I find some.

Looking forward to having a one touch up/down :)

 

David.

[deag 0]

Sorry for the delay...

I wanted to double check the details of the pass circuit...

But here's how I think it should be from new for the six pin switch...

 

driver's door;

you have 8 leads coming to the pass window switch

2 red (12v feed for window motor switch circuit, 1 for drivers door switch, 1 for pass door)

2 brown (0v return for window motor switch circuit and switch illumination circuit)

2 red/blue (12V feed for illumination, one for driver's door switch, one for pass door switch)

1 green

1 black (green and black should be connected to the 2 blue/black wires on the switch, or basically the outer switch terminals. these take a switch signal from the driver's door, and transfer it to the pass door)

 

There are four of these wires running directly to the pass door, 1 red, 1 blue/red, 1 black, 1 green

 

Pass door;

four wires from driver's door, 2 from pass window motor

1 red (12v feed, as above)

1 red/blue (12v feed, as above)

1 black (signal from driver's door, connect this to the brown wire from the switch, or one of two inner terminals on switch)

1 green (as for the black, connect to other brown wire from switch, or other inner terminal)

2 blue/black (connect to two outer switch terminals)

 

the difficulty is which of the red and red/blue wires go to which of the middle terminals (considering the six terminals as two mirrored sets of three; outer, middle, inner..). you'll know if it's wrong when you turn on the lights (if the switch lights up or the window motor engages).

also, on the driver's door pass window switch wiring, which of the green and black wire goes to which ot the inner terminals is not clear. Basically, if the window goes up when you press down, change these two....

 

and that's it....

 

any questions let me know, and I'll see if I can help.

 

a new camera should be on it's way as I type, so expect a how-to or similar in a few weeks...

 

 

deag.