Clutch failure(?) - FIXED, was hydraulic AND friction!

[ProdigalSon 1]

Gone in 60 quote perchance?!

Possibly, but I was thinking Shooter.

 

btw, have you still got that silver hammerite? holla @ me.

Yes... somewhere.

[ProdigalSon 1]

Yesterday fitted the new clutch slave cylinder

 

_DSC6128.jpg[/attachment:3mkpvhyi]

and tried to re-bleed the system, but constant bubbles after 400ml made me decide not to waste any more brake fluid :roll: It was then a toss up between changing the clutch plate etc. and changing the master cylinder, so I chose the latter as the clutch hydraulics were still obviously dodgy and the clutch was not disengaging. Started to remove the inlet manifold to get some room, but lost the light.

 

Today I finally finished removing the inlet manifold (long story :lol: ) to get access to the clutch master, then changed that for a spare off the scrapper we dee-stroyed a couple of weeks ago. The spare had a little 'jiggle room' before you felt the resistance of the piston as you pushed it in, but the original that I removed from the car had no jiggle, it was stiff from the get-go... Thoughts? :?

 

Anyhow, only had time to lose one of the master cyl nuts down inside the rubber boot for the steering column, wrestle with the hydraulic union (thread would not bite :( ), and hook up the spare master to the brake fluid reservoir before the light went again (roll on long summer nights!)

 

Will give it a 'static' test tomorrow hopefully, although tricky to test without the engine running! Am wondering if I shouldn't just order a brand new, known good master cyl from VAG and have done, although I just read a post by Henny saying that the coiled hydraulic line can become porous :shock: so even a new master might not fix it :(

 

Am seriously considering taking the engine out and trailering/towing the rest to the bodyshop!

 

Your thoughts and opinions are welcome, as usual :wink:

[boost monkey 0]

With regards to the union not biting, if you mean the copper line with the threaded head, you really have to push them into the union to start with to get the threads to bite as there is actually a fair amount of tension in the copper line despite it being so small and relatively ductile!

 

Will think on Bromulan.

[ProdigalSon 1]

With regards to the union not biting, if you mean the copper line with the threaded head, you really have to push them into the union to start with to get the threads to bite as there is actually a fair amount of tension in the copper line despite it being so small and relatively ductile!

After trying several times to get that union to bite while the master cyl was in place through the bulkhead, I removed it, held it vertical to get the thread started (much easier! :D ) and then pivoted the cylinder through 270 degrees with the copper line still attached so that it was horizontal and would slot through the bulkhead hole, although clearance around the brake servo heatshield was still a bit tricky. Was well pleased with that bit of 3D spatialisation :lol:

[boost monkey 0]

woot!

 

good work bro.

 

keep us updated.

[ProdigalSon 1]

Just been to VW and ordered a new clutch master cylinder, and the hydraulic line that is half rubber-half copper, with a coiled section next to the slave cylinder. So that will be an almost-complete hydraulic system replacement then! :roll:

[boost monkey 0]

Apart from the ABS unit and normal brakes lines, but yeah. :(

[ProdigalSon 1]

Just been to VW and ordered a new clutch master cylinder, and the hydraulic line that is half rubber-half copper, with a coiled section next to the slave cylinder. So that will be an almost-complete hydraulic [Edit:] clutch [/Edit] system replacement then! :roll:

:D

[ProdigalSon 1]

/\/\/\ Will try to get all that stuff installed tonight... then refit the inlet manifold et al. tomorrow.

 

Fingers crossed :)

[CazzaVR 0]

Everything crossed! :)

[ProdigalSon 1]

Blitzed it last night with lots of help from my missus :) Swapped out the master cyl for the new VW unit, and replaced the coiled copper/rubber hydraulic line, which was suspiciously damp :?

 

Bled the slave, master, then slave again just to be sure and after about 400ml of fluid it was perfect - no bubbles in sight, in fact it was so clean that I had to check that there was fluid coming out at all! :D

 

I reckon that it was caused by the rubber tube becoming porous and although it wouldn't squirt fluid out (too viscous) it would get damp, and allow hundreds of tiny air bubbles in, which is exactly what I was seeing when trying to bleed the slave previously... :shock: Props to Henny, who mentioned this fault in a related topic about clutch failure :cheers:

 

So the new master and slave cylinder were probably not needed, but hey, they looked and felt pretty worn, so it's peace of mind to have done them too! :lol:

 

Managed to get as far as re-installing the inlet manifold (so much easier with the throttle body off!) and realised it was 11:30pm, so time to pack up :wink:

 

The phenolic inlet gasket is staying off for now. We did try it, but it is way too tricky to fasten with the limited time and space we have, and will be much easier when the engine comes out in the summer.

 

Once the inlet and fuel systems are back together I will give the clutch a try, although I am prepared to replace the clutch plate too if the problem is not fixed - I know how these Corrado problems come in multiples :roll: :lol:

[boost monkey 0]

Blitzed it last night with lots of help from my missus :) Swapped out the master cyl for the new VW unit, and replaced the coiled copper/rubber hydraulic line, which was suspiciously damp :?

 

Bled the slave, master, then slave again just to be sure and after about 400ml of fluid it was perfect - no bubbles in sight, in fact it was so clean that I had to check that there was fluid coming out at all! :D

 

I reckon that it was caused by the rubber tube becoming porous and although it wouldn't squirt fluid out (too viscous) it would get damp, and allow hundreds of tiny air bubbles in, which is exactly what I was seeing when trying to bleed the slave previously... :shock: Props to Henny, who mentioned this fault in a related topic about clutch failure :cheers:

 

So the new master and slave cylinder were probably not needed, but hey, they looked and felt pretty worn, so it's peace of mind to have done them too! :lol:

 

Managed to get as far as re-installing the inlet manifold (so much easier with the throttle body off!) and realised it was 11:30pm, so time to pack up :wink:

 

The phenolic inlet gasket is staying off for now. We did try it, but it is way too tricky to fasten with the limited time and space we have, and will be much easier when the engine comes out in the summer.

 

Once the inlet and fuel systems are back together I will give the clutch a try, although I am prepared to replace the clutch plate too if the problem is not fixed - I know how these Corrado problems come in multiples :roll: :lol:

 

 

Good news bro, but...

 

you really shouldn't have re-used your old inlet gasket. I was under the impression you were going straight back on with the phenolic, and so didn't think anything of it.

 

You might get away with the gasket, you might not. I've always been told that you should replace gaskets on anything that you take off that has had one on....made more sense in my head!

 

Edit: I'm guessing you took the TB off aswell then, and didn't replace the gasket for that too? tbh, you might be fine, I just would expect someone to replace them both. I guess the summer isn't that long to go...

[boost monkey 0]

You should deffo do the clutch anyways bro, you must be putting around 200hp and the same in torque through an old clutch rated for 160hp!

 

easy enough to do though :D

[ProdigalSon 1]

you really shouldn't have re-used your old inlet gasket. I was under the impression you were going straight back on with the phenolic, and so didn't think anything of it.

 

You might get away with the gasket, you might not. I've always been told that you should replace gaskets on anything that you take off that has had one on....made more sense in my head!

 

Edit: I'm guessing you took the TB off aswell then, and didn't replace the gasket for that too? tbh, you might be fine, I just would expect someone to replace them both. I guess the summer isn't that long to go...

Didn't want to do it either, but no choice in the situation :( The phenolic was supplied with 2 x 8V gaskets that have a big upward loop, which fouled on the injectors, so they had to be trimmed, leaving two halves to each gasket (one cyl and 3 cyls) - a complete nightmare to align, especially as the inlet is an interference fit with the exhaust and there's literally no room to get your hand in to align it with the engine in place. Will get 2 correct G60 inlet gaskets for when we fit the phenolic later.

 

The worst that can happen is that the air will leak out a bit making the mixture slightly rich, especially if manifold pressure is high. Now that I've done the inlet once and know the 'tricks', it's probably 90 minutes to replace the gasket, which I can do in less rushed circumstances! Priority now is getting it on the road - we'll have plenty of time in April onwards to pick up all the other little bits.

 

Did get a TB gasket and will fit that.

 

A case of 'needs must', bro :roll:

 

[Edit: You fancy doing the clutch tonight?]

[boost monkey 0]

Mmm, Vagcat lists inlet manifold gaskets for the G60 as two different parts, seperated by what looks like a before and after of chassis numbers...

 

I can imagine the inlet gasket would be more of a nightmare to align as the studs are removed from the engine, as opposed to the exhaust ones which stay in the head.

 

Perhaps the loops in the gasket are designed to go round the injectors, which would mean removing the fuel rail at least, if not the injectors too.

 

Fair play if you refitted the gaskets just to get the car running and check the new parts work.

 

Not sure what i'm up to tonight, have you read up on the gearbox removal?

[ProdigalSon 1]

Mmm, Vagcat lists inlet manifold gaskets for the G60 as two different parts, seperated by what looks like a before and after of chassis numbers...

 

I can imagine the inlet gasket would be more of a nightmare to align as the studs are removed from the engine, as opposed to the exhaust ones which stay in the head.

 

Perhaps the loops in the gasket are designed to go round the injectors, which would mean removing the fuel rail at least, if not the injectors too.

 

Fair play if you refitted the gaskets just to get the car running and check the new parts work.

 

Not sure what i'm up to tonight, have you read up on the gearbox removal?

 

/\/\/\ Mines an 'N' chassis.

 

The looped gasket is from a carb'd 8V I think, as it has some weird manifold extra between the 1st/2nd or 3rd/4th inlets... Can't find a pic right now. Definitely not designed for use with a fuel injection system!

 

You're bang on about the inlet gasket being hard to position as there are no studs to hang it on.

 

Got the workshop manual for gearbox removal, will have a look...

 

Cheers bro :wink:

[boost monkey 0]

Good news!

 

loopy bits on gaskets are probably to go round the coolant lines into the carb 8v manifold, as they were heated to prevent carb icing.

 

Yes, I am a geek.

[ProdigalSon 1]

Good news!

 

loopy bits on gaskets are probably to go round the coolant lines into the carb 8v manifold, as they were heated to prevent carb icing.

 

Yes, I am a geek.

:ubergeek: :salute:

[ProdigalSon 1]

Will take a couple more days to test the clutch fix properly, due to the small inconvenience of a snapped fuel rail(!) - the plastic with the threaded insert gave way when refitting the FPR :roll:

 

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New fuel rail on order, will be here Friday at the earliest... at least that's the last of the 'perishable' fuel delivery parts! :lol:

 

If nothing else fails, should have it running by Friday night - here's hoping :wink:

[ProdigalSon 1]

Long story short (details on my Member's gallery thread, if you're really interested!), the hydraulic replacements worked fine but once the new fuel rail was on and the engine was running, it still refused to go into/out of gear :mad2:

 

Went through the laborious task of swapping out the standard clutch for a new VR6 unit, and lo and behold - one very mangled friction plate worn down to the metal: :eek:

climatronic wiring-Golf from May 01.pdf_DSC8110Small.jpg[/attachment:2dxhh8j1]

and the release bearing was pretty worn too: :gag:

2.8l 24v Climatronic system.pdf_DSC8112Small.jpg[/attachment:2dxhh8j1]

 

Once the new clutch was on and aligned with my expensive (but satisfyingly accurate) original VW centring tool: 8)

_DSC8121Small.jpg[/attachment:2dxhh8j1]

it was time to wrestle the gearbox back on (cheers to boost monkey for much-needed help), and try the new mechanicals out.

 

It worked! Apart from the box being slightly notchy, the gear change is sweet, progressive pick-up on the clutch, pedal feels great, and the bite point has move up a looong way! :clap:

 

May just keep the friction plate and frame it, proof of what a tuned-up engine can do to an old stock clutch :oops:

 

(and yes, boost monkey was right to suspect the clutch itself.)

[boost monkey 0]

:clap: and people say I don't know isht :cuckoo:

 

I think you should pick up some new clutch cables soonish whilst you can still get your newish exhaust apart easily and replace them, they are probably a little tired :salute:

 

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