16v timing question

[russlench 0]

I am struggling to get the timing right on a 16v KR head with standards KR cams. I've read through a couple of guides, one of them here: http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=184663 , and others on this forum but have found no clear answer to the problem I have.

 

When I installed the cams I made sure that the spots were at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock ()>

 

 

Do both timing points have to be aligned? ie, gear spot at 3 and 9 o'clock *and* cam pulley to cover mark, or do you just make sure that the gear spots line up and make a new mark on the cam pulley?

 

Any help with this would be appreciated

Russ

[lockdown 0]

I am yet to put mine back together, so this thread has put the fear of god in to me! :(

 

I'll be watching very closely :D

[aide 0]

cam gears circles face each other at 3 and 9 oclock

 

there's two marks on the cam pulley, the mark on the right/ engine side has to be level with the top of the cylinder head, the other mark meets the cam cover groove in vertical

 

if ur the guy who asked the question about the crank recess, then no, nothing goes in that recess :salute:

[russlench 0]

Thanks for that aide, I spoke to VW again today and they said the same about the recess.

 

What do you think the issue could be then with the timing? When the mark on the front of the pulley line up with the cam cover and the mark on the back of the pulley line up with the cylinder head/cover gasket face the gear spots are the positions you see in the pics?

 

Is it more likely that the gears are out or the pulley is out, the pulley cam only bolt up one way because of the keyway - what do you think could be wrong?

 

Russ

[aide 0]

ok should be lined up perfectly if the timings are correct

 

occassionally the woodruff keys - little disc things which sits in the cam/ gear recess - can shear off so the cam looses its timing, maybe worth checking that

 

i can't remember if the pulleys can be put on the wrong way either?!?

[GlosterOx 0]

Not sure if is a help, but when Vince @ Stealth tried to fit my KR Inlet Cam he couldn't get everything lined up as required and as previously suggested the woodruff key was starting to shear off!!

 

Ian :D

[davidwort 0]

there's no woodruff key as such, but the pulley itself has a notch cast into it, but yes they can shear, usually as a result of an engine snapping a cam belt

from memory the marks on the cam gears align with the top surface of the head not at 9 and 3 o'clock

actually, thinking about it again and looking at the photos I think marks level with the head is the same as 9 and 3 o'clock :)

engine6_scirocco16vdotcom.jpg[/attachment:1hg2i1ab]

[aide 0]

99 % sure there's a woodruff key on the cam gears dave

[davidwort 0]

99 % sure there's a woodruff key on the cam gears dave

I guess it depends on the pulley but I had one from a KR that had a cast notch like the bottom crank pulley, that sheared with a cam belt disaster, just saying it's probably not a separate key that's all, does the same locating job though.

[aide 0]

no your absolutely right with the notch on the pulley end, it's the gear ends i was thinking of, too much time spent previously trying to bodge an exhaust cam as an inlet :D

[russlench 0]

OK, I may have just spotted something :confused4: , if you look at this pic there is nothing stamped on the face of the pulley

 

 

 

 

on this pic it looks as though (although blurred) there is something stamped on the back of the pulley in between the guy's fingers

 

 

 

 

looking at my first pic, the VW and Audi stamp is facing away from the engine :nuts: , as aide mentioned is it possible that the pulley fits both ways?

[aide 0]

tbh i don't the pulley does fit both ways, i think the groove on it is like a triangle on one side which only lets it fit one way

 

that said, i take it that white stuff is tip-ex, so someone has marked timing it up previously?

 

can't make anything out on that picture, the marks should be obvious :scratch:

 

will nip out to the garage and have a look at one of my spare cams in a minute :D

[aide 0]

ok have been outside, and here's four pics of;

 

- outer timing mark on cam pulley

- inner mark on cam pulley

- cam gear timing mark circle and woodruff key groove

- also a shot showing position of cam lobes when lined up at tdc

 

your timing is a mile out so i'd visually (ie thereabouts) check the timing marks and cam lobe positions are somewhere near mine, i think the first two lobes at the pulley end seem fine, it's the gear (chain) end which looks all out, if it is then you'll need to get urself a gear puller to pull the gear of the cam and check for sure that it has sheared off

 

i have spare gears and a woodruff key which can be posted if you need :D

[russlench 0]

OK, here is where I admit I have been a complete idiot!

 

I managed to put the pulley on the cam the wrong way (in facing out). Thanks aide for the lead on this, I though about it for most of the night and it started to make sense.

 

So today, I came to swap around and this is what happened:

 

 

I had obviously weakened the key when I torqued it up.

 

It is at this point I ask the question: has anyone got a spare KR exhaust cam and pulley? Please?

 

I am now worried that I may have weakened the keyway on the cam so would rather replace it.

 

$$$ waiting!!!

[aide 0]

haha :D well at least its sorted!

 

don't have a spare cam, but do have a pulley!

[russlench 0]

OK aide, what would your advice be on the cam? I can't see any visible damage to the cam and I did only just torque it up (it has not been under any load). How much do you want for the pulley - I would pay for next day delivery as well.

 

Cheers aide

Russ

[aide 0]

i really wouldn't want to say without having a proper look at the cam, if everything is still tight then assume would be ok

 

hows £10 for the pulley, won't get it split off till 2moro tho, posted thurs next day for say £4?

[russlench 0]

OK aide, sounds good. PM me your paypal details if you have an account, I'll make sure there is enough to cover the fee. If you could get it to me by Friday that would be great as I've got next week off to swap the motors over (hopefully with a little more success).