G60 dies intermittently

[G60rob 0]

A few weeks ago my G60 would occasionally miss a beat then be OK for a day or more. Then it would die suddenly whilst driving. Sometimes it would start again easily, sometimes it would take a while. Then it might run for a few seconds, a few minutes, hours - just random.

I had it recovered to an auto electrical specialist who claimed that what he called the "engine management relay" had some dry joints. After he re-soldered these the car was fine for a few weeks, then today it was back to its old tricks.

I spoke to the guy who fixed it last time and he suggested I replace this relay, though he said a new one wouldn't be as good quality as the original. He said the relay he was talking about was a long one at the top of the fuse panel. It looks to me as if he means relay 90, which I thought was the fuel pump after-run relay. Would this have caused these symptoms, or was he barking up the wrong tree? I would have thought relay 32 (Digifant control relay) would be more likely. The one that's in is the original, so I suppose it wouldn't hurt to renew it?

[Supercharged 2]

Yeah sounds like the ECU relay and no point really soldering it - You are correct and the long one is the intermittent front wiper one.

 

New ones should be more reliable if anything but if you have a 32 then it's already been done once as the car came with a 30 originally. I would buy a new one and maybe also get a fuel pump relay (167) and ignition switch if this has not been done recently.

[Supercharged 2]

Unlocked - Tom, the thread referenced was 5 years ago and solved... this is a new problem. :hitler:

[Supercharged 2]

At the moment I'm leaning towards the fuel pump relay 80, because the engine sometimes faulters if I tap it. I'll get a new relay tomorrow.

 

Thanks for your response before the thread was locked, Supercharged. I don't like to seem contradictory, but the long one is I believe the fuel pump after run control unit (number 90), not the intermittent wiper relay which is 99 and isn't a long relay. Also, the fuel pump relay in my car is 80, not 167. And I'm almost certain that my car came with 32, not 30. I think we're talking about different models, perhaps your numbers relate to the VR6?

 

 

 

 

Hehe - yeah you're right was getting confused... wiper is 99.

 

Sorry about VR6 - it was fine as a new thread but I think he locked it when you mentioned a re-occurence of an old problem not realising this was 5 years old - he also has a hatred for G60's and their owners

 

Ok - the ECU relay you have is actually the original (32) - it's the new one that is a 30 and the same goes for fuel pump, you have an 80 and the new one is a 167.

[VR6 0]

Booooooo.

 

Hssssssssssssss.

[mimjed 0]

i recently changed my ignition switch and ecu relay.

 

although its recommended to remove the seat to do the switch its really not needed. just shove it all the way back then recline all the way back and lie on it. a bent pozi screwdriver is the tool for the job.

 

worth checking connection to the ecu aswell as this was seemingly the problem on mine.

 

if you turn the ignition on and plug a relay back in you will hear it clicking when it pulls in to earth (good sign its working as it should be). worth checking on the fuel pump relay as they are about £35 now i think.

[Alex_G60_Fanatic 0]

I had the same problem on mine but never managed to solve it before she was declared off-road. Although i have changed the ignition switch don't know if thats fixed it or not as I can't drive her about.

 

Therefor a very useful thread thanks :D

[G60rob 0]

I've done ignition switches (and locks) before. Got it down to a fine art.

 

The recovery guy was confident it would be the ignition switch, because it's a common fault on Golfs, he said.

The auto electrician was confident it was the ECU relay, because it's a common fault on VWs, he said. (But then he worked on the fuel pump after run relay, assuming it was the ECU relay.)

I thought at first it might be the Hall effect sensor again, because apparently that's a common fault, and that's what it was last time.

 

If I replaced every Corrado component that's commonly faulty I think I'd end up with a new car.

 

I'll try checking the fuel pump relay, and the ECU connector, thanks for the advice.

[mimjed 0]

its worth opening the ecu while you are there too, there are two small screws that hold one of the circuit boards in place and sometimes they go walkabouts causing a poor connection with vibration.

 

ecu relays and ignition swithches are indeed a common fault. they werent trying to fleece you.

[G60rob 0]

Well, this is turning into the usual Corrado can of worms. Several faults at once, I think.

I replaced the fuel pump relay (was 80, now 167). Car started first time from cold, but as the engine warmed up and the idle speed came down to normal it started fluctuating then died suddenly. Started it again then I went under the bonnet and started wiggling connectors and so on, and when I moved the vacuum tube from the TB to ECU the idle went crazy, all over the place. Must be a leak in the pipe, which was looking perished and dry, so replaced it with the correct 3.5mm bore, 2mm wall, 100cm long tubing from the stealer. Obvious improvement, but still very lumpy idle.

Pulled the ISV connector and sprayed contact cleaner into the plug, re-fitted it, no better. Noticed the black plastic end of the ISV with the electrical plug on it is slightly loose in the alloy body, and twisting it seems to affect the idle. I got some contact cleaner on the joint and it blew a bubble at me! I don't know how the ISV is constructed, but should this end be airtight? I'll put a bead of silicone sealant round and see if that helps, after I've taken the ISV off and squirted carb cleaner into it. Is that all there is to cleaning it, by the way, or is there some dismantling to do?

I hope I'm wrong, but I have a feeling this idling problem is a separate issue from the sudden cutting out.

[JMC 0]

Cleaning the ISV is simply carb cleaner, swill it round and pour it out. Repeat once or twice until it runs clear. They can be adjusted inside, but it shouldn't need taht to run. I don't think the end should be loose though - from memory it isn't on mine. Also is it a genuine G60 ISV - some people have fitted others to theirs? Finally, check the ISV wiring that runs near the injectors. I had a problem on mine - with all the heat there, the wire had become brittle and snapped internally causing me idle problems. Replaced that section wire and idle problems solved.

[G60rob 0]

It's the ISV that's been on the car from new, part number 037 906 45?? (the rest has rubbed off). There's an 037 906 457D on ebay for a Mk3 16v Golf GTi ABF, or worldcarparts sell 037 906 457E and 037 906 457F. Any idea which of these it is, or are they all the same?

[G60rob 0]

Update: just checked with the dealer and it's 037 906 457D. 457 E and F look the same but I presume they're not?

[JMC 0]

Update: just checked with the dealer and it's 037 906 457D. 457 E and F look the same but I presume they're not?

 

I can check on ETKA for you later mate - AFAIK the G60 ones are specific to the G60.

[G60rob 0]

I've just cleaned the ISV but no dirt came out. I lubricated it with WD40, refitted it, switched on the ignition, and I could feel it buzzing and ticking rhythmically. The engine started but idled a bit roughly then died suddenly as it warmed up. The ISV was no longer buzzing - should it switch off at a certain engine temperature like this?

I got the engine started again and went back to wiggling wires and pipes, but it's impossible to know whether the engine falters because I'm wiggling a particular wire or whether it would have done it anyway. Certainly, when it stopped suddenly I wasn't touching anything.

I thought I was onto something when I was checking the lambda connector, but I'm not sure. Unfortunately, wiggling has its downside, because the purple wire broke off the lambda multiplug :eek: just where it enters the plug so there's nothing for me to connect it back onto. :pale:

Does anyone know how to get the contacts out of one of these multiplugs so I can solder it back on? Or can I get a new plug and reconnect all four wires?

By the way, I don't know what this purple wire does, but losing it didn't affect the idling.

[G60rob 0]

A bit more progress. Managed to cut away enough of the lambda plug to expose a stub of wire to solder onto, so that's fixed.

Tried the engine again. Just as before, lumpy idle then sudden stop and wouldn't start again. I tried the heater fan and indicators, which worked, so does that mean the ignition switch is OK, or could it be supplying the ancillaries but not the ignition circuit? When I connected my timing strobe and turned the engine over there was no flash for several turns, then the engine fired and the strobe started flashing.

So, the sudden cutting out and not starting is a lack of sparks, but where to look next? And is the lumpy idle related, or a separate fault?

I wonder if it could be the Hall effect sensor in the distributor again - is there any way to test this?

[JMC 0]

Not sure on the rest mate but the ISV ending in 457D is the G60 one, however it was also used on early 1.8l 16v ones as well. 457C is from the 2l 8v engine. Track down a 457D one.

[G60rob 0]

Thanks. 457D was also used on Mk3 Golf ABF engine, apparently.

 

I'll try and pick up a second hand one sometime (stealer wants £354.90 :shock: ), but I don't think the ISV is my immediate problem.

 

Any thoughts out there? I'm trying to put off replacing the distributor until I'm sure it's necessary. The next easiest and cheapest options seem to be BTS and ECU relay, if I'm just replacing parts more or less at random.

[G60rob 0]

Replacing the Digifant/ECU control relay 32, now 30, seems to have cured it.

[JMC 0]

:clap:

[Supercharged 2]

God man, glad you got it sorted!

 

You might want to do the fuel pump one too for future reliability...

[G60rob 0]

I already have! That was the first thing I tried. So now I have a spare.

[G60rob 0]

I spoke too soon - it's at it again!

I had to be recovered to home a couple of weeks ago, and after a good rummage in the wiring the AA man reckoned it was a loose earth to the immobiliser which was easily fixed. All was OK for a while, then it stopped whilst idling on the drive.

At this point I'm embarrassed to admit my previous posts in this thread might have missed out crucial details that I didn't notice were important. Like the fact that when it died this time everything went off: no instrument panel lights, no horn, no indicators, nothing. All the messing about before with relays and so on would have been a waste of time if it was the same fault back then :oops:

So it looked at least possible that it was the immobiliser (Clifford Virtual Key), but as I couldn't figure out what wire did what I got a mobile electrician to disconnect it. It seems to be OK now, but we've been here before, so watch this space!

 

Incidentally, can someone enlighten me as to what the thick red/black wire to the ignition switch is for? It was cut off when the immobiliser was installed and one of the black (they're all black) Clifford wires was spliced into the switch. I expected it to be re-connected when the immobiliser was taken off, but the electrician had just taped it up.

[Supercharged 2]

That wire usually feeds the starter motor soleniod - you'll see the single white plug from the engine bay...

 

I hope they have used the correct gauge wire when they re-routed this connection

[G60rob 0]

I see your point, I'll try to trace it. But it's been working for over ten years with whatever wire they used so it can't be too bad?

I just wish I could figure out why that red/black wire hasn't been re-connected. Does it normally go direct from the ignition switch to the solenoid, or does it go via another connection where the new wire from the ignition switch could be linked in?

Maybe I'll try asking the electrician that removed the immobiliser, but I can't see him being very forthcoming. He wasn't keen to communicate, it seems to be a local trait.