Questions - Thing I just don't understand about VW's decisions

[Portent 0]

Ok I'm drunk. Been wondering these for ages...

 

1) Why did VW choose a wheel pattern of 5x100 for performance models and only 4x100 for the rest of the range? Surely it's easier to just pick one patterm for all?

 

2) Why did VW not use the 16v engine for the G60 (except in very special models)?

[tony_ack 0]

It's only guesswork from me...

 

1. The Corrado was based on the MK2 Golf which was 4 stud. Not too sure why the VR6 got a wider track (needed more room?), but the wide track design was probably borrowed off a MK3 GTI/VR6, which was 5-stud. No point reinventing the wheel (no pun intended)

 

2. I can only guess that because the 16v motor was still relatively new (released in 1986/7 in the Golf) when the G60 was designed, VW decided to fall back on a tried and tested design (1.8 8v). Once the 8v G60 was launched, there probably wasn't really much point in developing a production version of the 16v G60 when the VR6 was on the drawing boards, and Audi were starting to look at the 1.8T

[Jim Bowen 1]

I reckon vw had a stock pile of holes to use up so put an extra one on every vr6 wheel.

 

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[KIPVW 0]

The plus axle was introduced to cope with the extra torque the VR6 had over the 4 cyclinder models, it was also then standard on all MK 3 GTI's etc

[aide 0]

I'd assume vw felt that a 16vg60 would put the vr6 in the shade a little, no doubt they'd have curbed its potential a little, but why have two different circa 200bhp engines in the same car.

[Jim 1]

My feeling is that the 16vG60 was just too old school in terms of the engineering, and too expensive to produce not to mention not compatible with forthcoming OBD diagnostic requirements. Old mechanical fuel injection system, the G-Lader which I think even VW realised wasn't a sustainable piece of technology long term, complicated in terms of the amount of pipework and so forth, and most likely not great on emissions or fuel economy.. the VR6 was a far more elegant way of getting the same amount of power in the same engine bay and was an all new ground up design to support them going forward.

[Tempest 0]

Have to counter a lot of that:

 

G60 used Digifant, which already used computerised fuel injection, had the potential to be extended to OBD, and indeed there are substamtial traces of it already in the Digifant (but crippled by Bosch/VW). This would be the case irrespective of applying the G60 to a 8V or 16V head, the block would have been the same.

 

Costwise, yes, maybe, but then the VR was to a large degree a ¨from-scratch¨ design, whereas the G60 simply took the 8V or 16V engine, which needed to be modified a bit, but sunstantially less so than starting a new engine altogether.

 

Whether VW realised the G60 could suffer from problems if not maintained correctly is anyone´s guess, maybe not, given that there are no service intervals in official VW repair manuals. That was indeed foolish of them, bit like saying ¨No need to change engine oil either! It´ll last.¨

 

Pipework wise the G60 is no more complicated than all this turbo malarky in cars these days, and indeed turboing cars was already done back in the 70s and 80s, indeed VW applied turbos to Mk2 Roccos, even to a Mk1 Rocco back in the 70s.

 

Guess the decisions taken byy VW are as usually is the case a combination of cost, and maybe even to a large degree randomness! More foolish decisions have been taken in the past by the powers that run these companies. Let´s not forget, these companies do not have the interests of future enthusiasts at heart, they have their shareholders´ and board room directors´ interests at heart, nothing else.

 

Tempest

[Redfox 10]

And that is why they are not taking chances too much developing more interesting cars, such as a new Corrado instead of the dreadfull scirocco mk III.

When VW Motorsport existed, they were seen as some kind of hooligans within the comapny, but they took chances and did some interesting things. The new vw racing not so...

 

Cheers,

Redfox.

[tony_ack 0]

One I thought of today... wonder why VW put the 9a engine in the facelift 16v instead of the ABF?

 

Both other facelift models (VR6 and 8v) used fully electronic injection, wonder why VW didn't do the same for the 16v?

[Redfox 10]

I think there's another reason for the VR6 coming and the G60 going. And that is the fact that the Corrado was VW sportscar, and they said at the time, that they had high expectations for that car. The problem with the G60, even though it's the model that drives the best in comparison was, that a propper sportscar have to have a big engine. Say 3 Liter or above. The VR6 pushed out 190 hp's easily without tuinng and that's a hard salesargument. A 1,8 Liter engine is not seen as a real sports car engine (at least in the eighties), even though it would be fast (minus ****el engines).

As for the servicelife and reliability, I think all engines have each their problems. The G60 was so easy to tune a lot, and many people went over the top and the collapsed. The VR had cracks in the spark plug threads and problems with chain tensioners. So what, they are sportscars, and they have to have two or for times the service than a normal people carrier. The same goes for all other sportscars.

Shifting managements and middle level leaders take different roads and chances. So did Porsche when they said that the 911 is old and out and the 928 in new and in. Not so.

The 944 had similar chain tensioner problems with the 944 16v and lacked pull in low revs, and is actually a very peaky engine like the KR and PL vw engines.

The Corrado is later told not to have been a success, but hey, a sportscar will never be a people carrier and a consumerthing in big numbers. And the model was on the market for 8 years. Not bad at all.

 

I personally haven't driven an abf engined car, but the 9a the pl and kr. Maybe, just maybe it was a market choice (or a try to make the market), that had the abf as a "modern" multi engine like it was seen from many other manufactures, and the kr/pl and the later 9a engine as the more performance/enthusiast oriented engines? Just a wild guess.

 

I think that vw from time to time suffers under the nasty audi brand, and this puts a stop to many good ideas/cars/engines from vw themselves.

 

Interesting thread anyway.

Cheers,

Redfox.

Edited June 9, 2012 by Redfox