The Forced Induction VR6 thread

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Stealth's makes 360hp @ 9psi with standard cams, standard head, standard management and a 2.5" exhaust :D

 

Charlie, this gentleman here /\ broke his gearbox with a GT30 by the way. What you've said about 400lbft is largely true, although 350lbft is nearer the mark, but it's more about where the torque comes in, rather than limiting it to a set amount. Vento cup challenge race cars used to break the gearboxes with ~ 200lbft. And a GT3071 does not full boost 1000rpm sooner than a GT35. I've run all 3 turbos mentioned here and there is no way 1000rpm spool difference between them. In fact , the 3582 is only a couple hundred rpm slower than the 3076 to spool.

[jamminvr6storm 0]

Long time no speak Kev.... hmm your going 24v now then?

 

Stealth's makes 360hp @ 9psi with standard cams, standard head, standard management and a 2.5" exhaust :D

 

They are very good figures /\ top markes to Vince!

 

10psi with my set up made 382bhp

 

Charlie, this gentleman here /\ broke his gearbox with a GT30 by the way.

 

Oh yes.... catastrophic failure of my gearbox, stripped all the teeth off 5th gear

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yeah mate, normally aspirated at first because the quality of 24V turbo parts isn't really up to my standards tbh! :lol: I suppose that's the benefit of going through the trauma of turboing a VR6 and running it for so many miles, you learn what's good and what isn't!!

 

I also have a LOT to learn in terms of mapping a 24V, so I'd rather do that without a turbo complicating matters in the first instance!!

 

Yeah Vince has done a great job. He uses a T4 flanged T60-1 sized turbo (T04S cold side) I believe, so will have a bit more cfm than your 3076, but it's always good to see a range of numbers!

[KADVR6 0]

be expecting a call soon kev, may be filling your wallet very soon.

[coullstar 0]

be expecting a call soon kev, may be filling your wallet very soon.

 

Haha, that didnt take long. You guys seem to get some good figures with low boost numbers. FYI Im running about 1bar and its 360bhp that with a 3582.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

All my old turbo stuff is already sold Karl but feel free to fill my wallet anyway :D Any joy with that Brake fluid pot mate?

 

Yeah we've discussed this before haven't we Graeme :D. A n'asp engine making 200hp @ 1 atmosphere should make 400hp with 2 atmospheres shoved through it. That's the law of physics we can't really argue with.

 

A few of us see more than that because we increased the efficiency of our engines with more head flow and more cam lift / duration. And similarly Honda VTECs see huge hp from low boost because of the sheer volume of air you can push through those engines. If you can shove a bucket load of air through an engine and there is less restriction (exhaust backing up into he cylinders), you can increase the ignition advance and make more power that way too. Hondas usually run bigger AR turbine housings than we would to capatilise on that.

 

The VR6 is a schitt flowing head, so cams and bigger valves are pretty much a necessity if you want to make good hp from modest boost.

 

Or use a 24V engine :D A stock 2.8 24V with just a spacer and exactly the same turbo and map from one of Bill's 3.0 12V engines made 50whp more from the same boost pressure......and the intake VVT wasn't even used. That's purely from the head flow :D

 

24V AUE turbo - it's the way to go :D Bill said the stock plastic intake can take a bar of boost, which we can take as gospel as he does this all day every day. So you'll get the uber low down torque of the stock inlet and using a big turbo housing, you'll get the top end silliness to match. Whack the intake cam open to it's full 25 degree adjustment during spool up and you really will have a VERY punchy engine indeed.

[KADVR6 0]

it will be posted tomorrow mate, been busy with new car and chuffing robbing b*****d c*****g solicitors, rant over lol

[lowvr 0]

What psi is the gt35 .82 efficiency zone really in when matted to a vr6?

 

The reason i ask this is i was under the impression its somewhere near the 20psi mark ...which makes me wonder what kind of power could be unleashed if for example Kev you turned up the boost a bit more

 

...i can realistically see why you may be holding back as its a daily and the reliability is needed...but lets say you addressed the main issues: strengthened the gearbox to 02m spec and all appropriate mods ...and also had h beam rods (im unsure if yours does or not) ...i wonder what could be achieved

 

 

btw does anyone have any experience with using slightly larger framed turbos on a VR ...something along the lines of a t04z with a 0.70 a/r

...the obvious issue seems to be lag but the right a/r turbine side may just help solve this ...hence the 0.70

...and what if nos was used pre-boost to help get reduce onset of boost and reduce spool time once in boost?

 

These are just some thoughts that i've been wanting some input on

[Kevin Bacon 5]

15psi and above is where things get interesting with a GT35 on the VR6 and they'll manage a good ~30psi before hitting the choke line....with a .82 back housing. Might touch 40psi with a T4 1.06 housing.

 

20psi on my spec engine I would guesstimate around the 500hp mark. When Vince maps 35s on stock VR6s, he's seen 430hp from 15psi.....

 

Yeah I reckon with an 02M, 20psi as a daily is more than feasible. I might actually have a crack at getting the 02M in with the 24V engine.

 

Don't know anything about NOS, sorry. I hear good things from a couple of mappers about the 24V's intake VVT greatly improving spool up response etc....

 

The exhaust VVT on the BDE and R32 motors does nothing. It's only fully on or fully off and doesn't affect power. The intake is infinitely variable from -25 to +25 degrees, so you can do quite a lot with that, hence why the AUE 2.8 is the motor of choice for boost, imo, of course :D

[poll250 0]

Does anyone happen to know what ID Vacuum hose is needed to fit a boost gauge to a VRT?

 

Edit: Would these be ok for secruing said Vacuum hoses: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/6mm-1-4-Vacuum-Spring-Clip-Action-Hose-Clamps-x-10-pcs-/310322429445?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4840a87e05

Edited May 31, 2011 by poll250

[Kevin Bacon 5]

3mm ID silicon I normally use. Yeah those clips might work. It just depends how thick the hose is. I used motorbike fuel line clamps. Similar to those but crimp up a little tighter.

[lowvr 0]

15psi and above is where things get interesting with a GT35 on the VR6 and they'll manage a good ~30psi before hitting the choke line....with a .82 back housing. Might touch 40psi with a T4 1.06 housing.

 

20psi on my spec engine I would guesstimate around the 500hp mark. When Vince maps 35s on stock VR6s, he's seen 430hp from 15psi.....

 

Yeah I reckon with an 02M, 20psi as a daily is more than feasible. I might actually have a crack at getting the 02M in with the 24V engine.

 

Don't know anything about NOS, sorry. I hear good things from a couple of mappers about the 24V's intake VVT greatly improving spool up response etc....

 

The exhaust VVT on the BDE and R32 motors does nothing. It's only fully on or fully off and doesn't affect power. The intake is infinitely variable from -25 to +25 degrees, so you can do quite a lot with that, hence why the AUE 2.8 is the motor of choice for boost, imo, of course :D

 

thanx for the detailed reply

 

If you are serious about the 02m conversion drop me a pm as i have all the parts required and a few spares, but will be using very little of them as i have ditched the fwd set up and am now building a mk2 with full 02m haldex 4wd. Progress is slow with other commitments in the way but its getting there.

 

do the 2.8 24v engine use the same pistons and rods as the 2.8 12v? ...or is the top face design different on the pistons to accommodate the redesigned head?

[lowvr 0]

anyone tried the borg warner match bot for the vr6 yet?

 

http://www.turbodriven.com/performanceturbos/matchbot/index.html#version=1.2&displacement=2.8&CID=170.856&altitude=500&baro=14.456&aat=75&turboconfig=1&compressor=70s75&pt1_rpm=2000&pt1_ve=85&pt1_boost=5&pt1_ie=99&pt1_filres=0.08&pt1_ipd=0.2&pt1_mbp=0.5&pt1_ce=66&pt1_te=75&pt1_egt=1550&pt1_ter=1.18&pt1_pw=2.94&pt1_bsfc=0.43&pt1_afr=11.5&pt1_wts=300&pt1_wd=83&pt1_wd2=74&pt1_wrsin=69033&pt2_rpm=3000&pt2_ve=95&pt2_boost=10&pt2_ie=95&pt2_filres=0.1&pt2_ipd=0.2&pt2_mbp=1&pt2_ce=70&pt2_te=73&pt2_egt=1600&pt2_ter=1.36&pt2_pw=9.68&pt2_bsfc=0.45&pt2_afr=11.5&pt2_wts=320&pt2_wd=83&pt2_wd2=74&pt2_wrsin=73635&pt3_rpm=4000&pt3_ve=100&pt3_boost=15&pt3_ie=95&pt3_filres=0.12&pt3_ipd=0.3&pt3_mbp=1.3&pt3_ce=74&pt3_te=72&pt3_egt=1650&pt3_ter=1.61&pt3_pw=22.44&pt3_bsfc=0.48&pt3_afr=11.5&pt3_wts=340&pt3_wd=83&pt3_wd2=74&pt3_wrsin=78238&pt4_rpm=5000&pt4_ve=100&pt4_boost=17&pt4_ie=92&pt4_filres=0.15&pt4_ipd=0.4&pt4_mbp=1.5&pt4_ce=76&pt4_te=71&pt4_egt=1650&pt4_ter=1.81&pt4_pw=30.95&pt4_bsfc=0.5&pt4_afr=11.5&pt4_wts=368&pt4_wd=83&pt4_wd2=74&pt4_wrsin=84681&pt5_rpm=6000&pt5_ve=105&pt5_boost=17&pt5_ie=90&pt5_filres=0.18&pt5_ipd=0.5&pt5_mbp=1.8&pt5_ce=72&pt5_te=70&pt5_egt=1650&pt5_ter=1.98&pt5_pw=34.68&pt5_bsfc=0.52&pt5_afr=11.5&pt5_wts=400&pt5_wd=83&pt5_wd2=74&pt5_wrsin=92044&pt6_rpm=7000&pt6_ve=105&pt6_boost=17&pt6_ie=90&pt6_filres=0.2&pt6_ipd=0.6&pt6_mbp=2&pt6_ce=66&pt6_te=70&pt6_egt=1650&pt6_ter=2.18&pt6_pw=36.45&pt6_bsfc=0.55&pt6_afr=11.5&pt6_wts=400&pt6_wd=83&pt6_wd2=74&pt6_wrsin=92044&

[jamminvr6storm 0]

Got my traction control up and running yesterday and what a difference it makes, well chuffed.

 

Have to say though, it makes a VRT a very boring drive on 5% slip LOL!

[poll250 0]

Got my traction control up and running yesterday and what a difference it makes, well chuffed.

 

Have to say though, it makes a VRT a very boring drive on 5% slip LOL!

 

I've had mine set at 20% most of the time so far, still need to really experiment with all the settings I guess but it seems good.

 

What sort of 1/4 mile time were you getting before the RLTC?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

thanx for the detailed reply

 

If you are serious about the 02m conversion drop me a pm as i have all the parts required and a few spares, but will be using very little of them as i have ditched the fwd set up and am now building a mk2 with full 02m haldex 4wd. Progress is slow with other commitments in the way but its getting there.

 

do the 2.8 24v engine use the same pistons and rods as the 2.8 12v? ...or is the top face design different on the pistons to accommodate the redesigned head?

 

Cheers mate, PM'd! Good luck with the 4x4 conversion.

 

Yeah 24V pistons have flat crowns as the combustion chamber is in the head. The rods and crank are the same as the 12V's though.

[jamminvr6storm 0]

I've had mine set at 20% most of the time so far, still need to really experiment with all the settings I guess but it seems good.

 

What sort of 1/4 mile time were you getting before the RLTC?

 

Yeah have to agree the 20% slip seems best as the other settings feel like they bog the car down too much. Did Vince fit yours? He has adapted the 20% slip option on his config file so it is more like 30%

 

I havent run it at Santa Pod yet (apparently the surface there shaves 1/2 a second off?) but I run a 13.0 at North Weald air strip last season without the TC

[poll250 0]

Yeah Vince did mine and it's got the modified 20% file from his car.

 

I was thinking of taking my to Santa Pod, I've heard it's super sticky so good for times, just worried about wrecking my clutch/box! I'd imagine you'd be able to get low 12's easily. Ever thought about getting a set of 15" drag wheels/tyres?

 

---------- Post added at 11:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:57 AM ----------

 

Me again.

 

So I fitted a Vacuum/Boost gauge a couple of days ago (Thanks Kev!) and it's tapped into the brake assistance line that comes from the side of the Inlet manifold.

 

I'm new to this, so can anyone tell me what a good base value for vacuum is on idle? I assume the higher negative, the more airtight the system is?

 

I noticed a couple of weird green clips (as shown in this photo stolen from the wiki: http://wiki.the-corrado.net/image_cc_038.html).They don't seem to do up very tightly, so can I replace them with jubilee/mikalor type clamps instead?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Christ, 5% slip, you may as well not turbo the car :lol: Useful in the winter months though I suspect.

 

You will almost certainly break the gearbox with drag slicks mate.

 

Does that guage I gave you display vac in inHG or negative PSI? I can't remember. Think it's inHG isn't it, in which case don't get too hung up on that mate. The Vortex guys are forever banging on about it. For reference mine used to idle at -20 in HG IIRC. Your engine wouldn't make the numbers it makes if it had cylinder sealing issues.

 

Those green clips don't feel terribly secure do they? Again, I wouldn't worry about them. They're also used on the brake servo hose and I've never had a sealing issue with them.

Edited June 9, 2011 by Kevin Bacon

[coullstar 0]

Ditto.

[perksy 11]

i think some of you might find this an interesting thread to read, and you might even understand it lol

 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5148893-Doogie-s-VR6VGT

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Bloody image hosting sites. Can't see any pics.

 

So I gather it's a VR6 with some kind of Variable vane turbine and a home made controller? Good skills :D Wish I could be arsed with something like that but it should be a torque monster if it works out!

[coullstar 0]

Yeah that what it is, I read that post the other day. The noise is bizzare from the vid on the rollers.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Cool, will have a better look at home later if I remember..... the PC is a full time DVD ripper at the moment :lol:

[poll250 0]

Sailed through it's MOT today(with a few little hiccups) To celebrate I took it for a good blast on a private road I know and managed to clock it pretty easily. When decelerating i noticed a load of whiteish smoke coming out the back end for about a mile or so. Got a bit scared I'd done something bad, but then it jus went, and the car seems to be driving and revving fine.Oil got up to 106 so no worries there.

 

Is it safe to assume it was just burning some carbon off from the piston crowns or valves?