1.8 valver timing prob (Marking help please)

[JBOB 0]

Hi Guys,

 

Ive pulled my car from the bodyshop that were doing the respray because they’ve cocked it up !!!! I also got them to do the belts inc timing and its tensioner. I probably could have done it but since it was inc in the respray price (which I haven’t paid) and they are so called professionals I bought the parts and let them get on with it.

 

As soon as I started the car today I could tell that something wasn’t right but the mechanic that did the belts just said that he’d done it all to the book and its just running rough because i hadn’t driven it in 13 weeks !!!!!! I tried pulling away in 1st and it was like I was in 2nd !! and on the drive back up the m62 I had my foot flat to the floor in 4th and my G/F’s Saxo was pulling away from me :shock: :shock: Then it started to back fire everytime id let off the gas so I crawled the 20 miles back from the bodyshop. I haven’t got a timing light and TBH timing has always been a bit of a grey area for me so Ive always had my brother do it for me but he’s 200miles away.

 

Ive checked all around the engine bay to see if anything maybe out of place but It all looked ok so with the engine running I undid the two bolts on the dizzy just enough to be able to turn it and found that if I turn it away from me (facing in from the front bumper) then the car would idle and generally sound a lot better. Ive turned the dizzy as far as it will go and took it out for a spin and everything is a million times better BUT does seem to be lacking something. The car was running perfectly before it went into the shop so ive it looks like the bodyshop not only screwed my paint but cant even do the timing belt right.

 

Do any of you super mechanically minded people have an idea of what this could be, surely there should be more adjustment with the dizzy but the bolts are in the right holes so cant turn it any further !!!!!

 

Thanks for any help

 

J[marq=right]Hi Guys,

 

Ive pulled my car from the bodyshop that were doing the respray because they’ve cocked it up !!!! I also got them to do the belts inc timing and its tensioner. I probably could have done it but since it was inc in the respray price (which I haven’t paid) and they are so called professionals I bought the parts and let them get on with it.

 

As soon as I started the car today I could tell that something wasn’t right but the mechanic that did the belts just said that he’d done it all to the book and its just running rough because i hadn’t driven it in 13 weeks !!!!!! I tried pulling away in 1st and it was like I was in 2nd !! and on the drive back up the m62 I had my foot flat to the floor in 4th and my G/F’s Saxo was pulling away from me :shock: :shock: Then it started to back fire everytime id let off the gas so I crawled the 20 miles back from the bodyshop. I haven’t got a timing light and TBH timing has always been a bit of a grey area for me so Ive always had my brother do it for me but he’s 200miles away.

 

Ive checked all around the engine bay to see if anything maybe out of place but It all looked ok so with the engine running I undid the two bolts on the dizzy just enough to be able to turn it and found that if I turn it away from me (facing in from the front bumper) then the car would idle and generally sound a lot better. Ive turned the dizzy as far as it will go and took it out for a spin and everything is a million times better BUT does seem to be lacking something. The car was running perfectly before it went into the shop so ive it looks like the bodyshop not only screwed my paint but cant even do the timing belt right.

 

Do any of you super mechanically minded people have an idea of what this could be, surely there should be more adjustment with the dizzy but the bolts are in the right holes so cant turn it any further !!!!!

 

Thanks for any help

 

J

[veeDuB_Rado 0]

The 16v runs best a 9 degrees BTDC ( Normal is 6 btdc ), maybe they set it the wrong way?

[sciroccotune 0]

They could well have missed setting the dizzy when they did the physical timing, but with a valver i would get it all checked by someone that knows what they are doing to make sure that no damage happens. The golf 16v hayes (sp??) manual is just fine for setting the timing. You could even do it to book settings with out a timing light.

[bcstudent 0]

I think I'd be inclined to start from the beginning and check the timing marks, just to be sure. If they check out ok then move onto the ignition timing. I'm not sure how you're going to be able to set the ignition timing without a strobe. I've never noticed a 6 degree timing mark on the distributor before and I can't think of another way to set it without a strobe.

 

When I changed the distributor on my 16v recently I set the timing by ear. It seems to run fine so I haven't gotten around to checking it with a strobe.

[flusted 0]

If your needing to run mega advance to get it to go,it sounds like the belts out 1 or 2 teeth.

Check all the timing marks line up,then turn dizzy clockwise until running sweet.

Try it round block and check for pinking,if it pinks,retard it slightly

[veeDuB_Rado 0]

Ooh don't let it run too advanced tho, mine did and me head went!

[JBOB 0]

If your needing to run mega advance to get it to go,it sounds like the belts out 1 or 2 teeth.

Check all the timing marks line up,then turn dizzy clockwise until running sweet.

Try it round block and check for pinking,if it pinks,retard it slightly

 

That’s exactly what I was thinking 8) ill check all the marks tomorrow. If the valve timing is out then is it just a case of loosening the tensioner and moving the cam pulley round till it all lines up ?

[flusted 0]

Yeah,as long as they havent touched the cam to cam timing

[davidwort 0]

If your needing to run mega advance to get it to go,it sounds like the belts out 1 or 2 teeth.

Check all the timing marks line up,then turn dizzy clockwise until running sweet.

Try it round block and check for pinking,if it pinks,retard it slightly

 

That’s exactly what I was thinking 8) ill check all the marks tomorrow. If the valve timing is out then is it just a case of loosening the tensioner and moving the cam pulley round till it all lines up ?

 

what is it with garages and 16v's???, I've had so many friends get timing belts done and the garage set the timing a tooth or two out (you'll get exactly the symptoms you describe if that's what's happened).

The dizzy shouldn't be touched doing the cam belt and it's the flywheel that has a 6 deg before TDC mark on it as well as the timing mark that should match the dizzy mark and cam belt pulley marks.

 

What can happen is when the old timing belt is removed the cams move slightly when the tension is released, that can make it easy to put the new belt on incorrectly if you don't properly check the marks, you also really need to wind it over by hand a couple of times to check everything's timed up properly and the belt can go too tight even if they seemed OK when first tensionned, again it depends if the cams are being pushed round a bit by the valve springs.

 

David.

[JBOB 0]

Im having real trouble finding the timing marks :oops: I know the cam ones are on the sprocket and line up with the rocker cover markings BUT my Golf Haynes manual (16v section) says that there are timing marks on the crank pulley and inside a cover on the gearbox.

 

I cant see ANY markings on the crank pulley and Ive had my G/F turning the engine slowly by hand with me and torch looking through the hole on the box but I cant see anything except the teeth that the starter links to :roll: the hole im looking through has a oval shaped black rubber cover in it and its the only hole I can find.

 

Anyone got any pics of what the markings look like :D

[flusted 0]

http://clubgti.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=92001&PN=1 everything you need to know

[davidwort 0]

http://clubgti.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=92001&PN=1 everything you need to know

 

yeah, only thing is the O2A gearbox is a bit different, it's amazing how quickly the timing mark on the flywheel can zip past even with a tiny amount of movement turning on the crank pulley.

 

look in the pic attached, almost directly under the white blob of paint on the gearbox casing is a small straight mark in the flywheel, that's the timing mark, there is also a dot a little further to the right on the flywheel(but not in view) which is the 6 deg mark.

You can clearly see the arrow on the cambelt cover and the mark in the crank pulley in my pic too, but the cam pulley mark is a little faint, it's right at the bottom in the pic.

As I've done, it really helps to put a bit of white paint or Tippex on the marks if you can get at them!

 

David.

[JBOB 0]

That’s for your help guys, those pics are going to help me out in the future :wink:

 

A friend Matt came over with his timing strobe (i need to get one asap :lol: ) and he had a look for the markings but couldn’t find them. He then took spark plug No1 out and put a chopstick down the hole !! Turned the engine over by hand til it was at the highest point and then moved the can pulley til it was lined up with the timing marks. He started the engine checked the ign timing with the gun and it runs like a dream now 8) 8) When I saw him put the chopstick down the hole I though WTF but it worked :lol:

 

I had bought two boxes of Grolsch at Christmas for the bodyshop lads but because they screwed me around so much and I don’t drink they were still in the garage, Matt took them as payment last night. So ive got a working car and it only cost me beer.

 

Ive got the car booked into another "Good" bodyshop tomorrow to right some of the wrongs with the paint so it should be ready for Dubfreeze 8) 8)

[flusted 0]

so is the timing spot on now? did he disconnect the black/red wire when he timed it up?

[h100vw 0]

so is the timing spot on now? did he disconnect the black/red wire when he timed it up?

 

Which is by the coil. It stops the timing being advanced by the ECU so you have a better chance of getting it right.

 

Gavin

[JBOB 0]

so is the timing spot on now? did he disconnect the black/red wire when he timed it up?

 

Which is by the coil. It stops the timing being advanced by the ECU so you have a better chance of getting it right.

 

Gavin

 

Yes he did disconnect it :D it all seems to be running fine now. Ive taken it out for about an hour and really enjoyed it as I havent really driven my car for the last 12 weeks :mad: