Henny 0 Posted November 17, 2003 yeah, it's a bit of a bugger that this bolt effectively holds the pulleys on that drive all 3 belts including the cam belt! :? Makes it messy when it breaks! :roll: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
h100vw 0 Posted November 17, 2003 H100VW, The pinking and other symptoms only happen with the 8V GTI engine... With the G60 there is no warning symptoms that I've heard about, the engine just stops running like you'd stalled it... :shock: :? If the bolt were to shear off and the cambelt pulley spin I guess it would stop dead. However you may get lucky and find the bolt is backing out slowly and the woodruff key is just about holding things together, like my mates 16V. The pinking from the incorrect timing may be enough of a warning, that you could stop before your world ends :shock: I personally get the feeling that a lot of failures, are due to reusing the bolt or replacing it and not doing it tight enough. The reusing it may even be down to a previous owner years earlier, like the German Holzkopf that replaced the headgasket on my G60 with one from a GTI. He could be the same tit who only replaced the big ends on 3 rods too. Gavin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Henny 0 Posted November 17, 2003 Just to clarify things a bit... If the bolt shears and you are driving the car, it's as if the engine has just stalled... The problem is that the momentum of the car is still turning the crank but not the cam so the valves will stop in which ever position they feel like until one of the pistons hits them... :shock: Think about it, you're driving along at 4K rpm and the bolt shears... yes, the engine is no longer powering the car and should stop almost dead, but until you dip the clutch (and even slightly after that due to momentum) the crank of the engine is still turning at 4K rpm as it's being turned by the wheels through the gearbox... If the bolt shears while you are trying to remove it using the starter motor then, again, the cam is stationary and the starter motor suddenly has a whole shed load less resistance so spins faster with less time for you to let go of the switch... If the bolt shears while trying to remove it with a long bar or air gun, then it's VERY difficult to damage the valves/pistons as the engine is not turning and has no momentum to make the pistons go anywhere... :wink: IMPORTANT: Remember, it only takes one complete revolution of the engine with the cam stationary to bend some valves. The PG engine is an interference engine so the valves WILL hit pistons unless the cam is spinning too, or you are exceptionally lucky with where the cam stopped turning... :? H100VW I tend to agree about the bolts probably having been removed though, I know of several local garage mechanics who know about the bolts coming loose on some of the engines, so they remove it during a cam-belt change, put a bit of thread lock on it, and put it back in... :shock: I've managed to educate a couple of them, but some reckon it's almost impossible to snap a stretch bolt and so won't listen... :roll: I have no idea of the history behind my engine, but I know it's been clocked by 110,000 miles + and that the guy I bought it from "lost" the service history that he had, probably at the same time the milage became slightly more acceptible! :roll: It's my own fault for not checking it out properly before I bought the car as I just assumed that a 100,000 mile car would look pretty much like mine did... The thought that an extra 110,000 miles had been taken off the clock never crossed my mind... :? :roll: I'm guessing that my engine's been rebuilt at some stage in the past, I know the S/C had been seen to by Jabba a couple of times before I went there 'cos it was them who told me of it's past, higher milage, life... :( I also guess that the bolt on mine has been removed and put back in at least once! :? At least I know it won't be used again this time! :roll: :lol: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CaiosG60 PWR 0 Posted November 17, 2003 Why was this fault not sorted by VW? Is it granteed not to happen untill the cars done a fair few miles? If it happend not long after buying a brand new Corrado you'd be fuming! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Banana Man 0 Posted November 17, 2003 I was dreading the point where I had to get the sheared bolt out of the crank as it was flush with the end of the crankshaft. There was me armed with a drill and a set of reverse taps went in with the drill and as I started to drill i noticed that the bolt was turning freely so I just stuck the drill in reverse and the bolt came out without any effort :D Job done obviously it didn't have an awful lot of thread lock on it so dont know how difficult it would be to get out if it did. But if the bolt is intact it shouldn't be that hard to get out just stick it in gear like henny said and get someone to jam on the brakes, get a nice 1/2" bar on it and give it all you got as it is done up pretty damn tight!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Henny 0 Posted November 18, 2003 It's good to hear that you got your broken bit out Banana man... 8) How much damage did it do to the internals when yours went? Have you still got the broken head part of the bolt? I'd place money on that it's almost identical in length to the one that snapped on mine... 19mm from the bottom of the flange to the end of the thread where it snapped... :? Mine's now sat on my window-sill of shame with all of the other bits of cars I've managed to either kill or blow up! There's a con-rod out of a MKI 1600 engine that came out of the side of the block, :shock: A valve that's decidedly bent out of a head where the camshaft snapped, a bit of the alloy from my first 'rado which was smashed off by going up the kerb sideways and backwards when I wrote her off, a piece of rusty chassis box section from my Type2 van, and now this bolt head from my G60... :? I seem to be building up quite a collection... I really must stop! :roll: :lol: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Banana Man 0 Posted November 18, 2003 It only slightly bent 2 of the exhaust valves on cylinder one and four so it sheared on the up stroke. have a look at the attatched pic you can hardly even see that they're bent got away quite lightly. I did have the broken bolt I was keeping it as a bit of history for the car :D but my sister thought it was rubbish and chucked it away! DOH Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edition one 0 Posted April 21, 2004 henny does that 6 sided bolt come with the washer already, im the guy with the pulley wobble, hopefully its just the pulley as everything feels tight buy gonna change the bolt now just in case Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edition one 0 Posted April 21, 2004 just being going through the old posts,thought ill ask Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Supercharged 2 Posted April 21, 2004 The 6 sided DX bolt does not come with a washer making it too long, you just want to order a crank bolt for a PG engine and they will give you the right one which looks identical to the original part it superceded but is of the non stretch type (we hope :roll: ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottgroovez 0 Posted May 13, 2004 I'm going to replace the crankshaft bolt with the DX version this weekend. What torque do you do it up to? According to the Bentley manual it's 80Nm + 1/2 turn, but that's for the original stretch bolt which I guess the additional 1/2 turn is for. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Henny 0 Posted May 13, 2004 I did mine up to 80Nm and put a SHED load of thread lock on it... That sod's not gonna come out again! ;) :lol: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scruffydubbers 0 Posted May 13, 2004 what sort of washer did you use with your DX bolt? i ve just bought one after reading this thread and just re-used my old crank bolt. cant get the old bolt out now :( but had some wheatabix today so i ll try again :mrgreen: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Henny 0 Posted May 13, 2004 I used VW's DX bolt washer... :lol: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy T 0 Posted May 13, 2004 Me I wouldn't worry. If it goes big time the crank in a G60 is the same as an 8/16 Valve. I have a brand new one in my garage, along with a brand new set of G60 rods. I ummmed and arrrd about giving the lad £30 for the lot, NOT!.. As far as I know, it is NOT the same crank. The dimensions are the same, but the G60 item is a drop forging for extra strength, the 8v one is not. I wouldnt trust a crank designed for 112bhp on a G60! How easy is it to replace the Crank Bolt? Assume the Timing Belts/pulley have to come off? Whats involved? Cheers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kvwloon 0 Posted May 13, 2004 Ermmm, is this bolt failure a problem with the 16v KR engine too?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Henny 0 Posted May 13, 2004 nope, the KR bolt is very similar, but doesn't have the extra pulley for the supercharger giving extra loads onto it so should be OK... I've yet to hear about a KR bolt breaking one... 8) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottgroovez 0 Posted May 13, 2004 Henny, Does the cambelt need removing? Looking at the ETKA diagram the crankshaft pulley fits onto the end of the crankshaft, so removing the bolt won't cause the pulley to not be supported? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Henny 0 Posted May 13, 2004 you probably could do it without removing the cambelt, you'd just need to loosen the tensioner to make sure it doesn't "ping" the bottom drive sprocket off when you take the bolt out, and then re-tension it afterwards.... 8) You will still need to take the P/S and supercharger belts and pulleys off though... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottgroovez 0 Posted May 15, 2004 Just finished replacing the bolt. I used an airgun which made removing the old one a piece of pi$$. Bolt was 88p, washer over £2 Those VAG prices are :shock:, but hey, it's worth it if it illiminates a potential weak point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
h100vw 0 Posted May 15, 2004 Me I wouldn't worry. If it goes big time the crank in a G60 is the same as an 8/16 Valve. I have a brand new one in my garage, along with a brand new set of G60 rods. I ummmed and arrrd about giving the lad £30 for the lot, NOT!.. As far as I know, it is NOT the same crank. The dimensions are the same, but the G60 item is a drop forging for extra strength, the 8v one is not. I wouldnt trust a crank designed for 112bhp on a G60! Andy, Etka says it is the same and I am inclined to believe it. :) Gavin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy T 0 Posted May 17, 2004 Yeah you are right, I stand corrected! Must of been VW Marketing Bollox then! Even the KR uses the same crank :mrgreen: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
