S3 / R32 Hubs on a VR6

[antonio_b12 0]

Right I managed to source a set of 312

[KipVR 1]

So you've now got a wider track but kept the top mounts in the same place,but from what it looks like you can't adjust your camber? Perhaps get some adjustable top mounts to save the inner edges of your tyres?

[paul20v 0]

is it the picture or does the wheel sit further forward in the wheel arch , as normally there nice and even front and rear of the arch.

[antonio_b12 0]

So you've now got a wider track but kept the top mounts in the same place,but from what it looks like you can't adjust your camber? Perhaps get some adjustable top mounts to save the inner edges of your tyres?

 

Yes adjustable top mounts is what im thinking too, will have to look into it.

 

 

is it the picture or does the wheel sit further forward in the wheel arch , as normally there nice and even front and rear of the arch.

 

Yeah good spot, but seems ok on full lock

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yes adjustable top mounts is what im thinking too, will have to look into it.

 

I can recommend these if you don't mind a bit of road rumble in the cabin :-

 

http://www.motorsportengineering.co.uk/ ... mounts.htm

[KipVR 1]

The S3 has no hub trail as the top mount is further forward in the car to give it the caster. You may find as a result of this you have lost some self centering on the steering depending on just how far forward you have moved the wheels.....along with lighter steering,less bump steer but less 'steering feel'....lots of pro's and con's as always with geometry changes.

[antonio_b12 0]

The S3 has no hub trail as the top mount is further forward in the car to give it the caster. You may find as a result of this you have lost some self centering on the steering depending on just how far forward you have moved the wheels.....along with lighter steering,less bump steer but less 'steering feel'....lots of pro's and con's as always with geometry changes.

 

Your not wrong there.

 

Steering is much lighter!!! less bump steer too, but you can still feel the steering, even at high speeds.

 

Ever thought your VR PAS rack was a tad sluggish?

 

Well my steering is now completely transform, i can only imagine with 15's it would feel even quicker! but less steering feel at high speeds.

 

I've been driving the car on stock top mounts for 100miles and over now, and i wanted to see what people thought off my tyre wear (inner edges)?

 

There both equal, 1 isn't wearing more than the other. Bear in mind that camber and tracking have not been done, i.e. fitted and driven 100 miles or so.

 

Left side

 

 

Right side

 

 

comments welcomed.

[KipVR 1]

That's not bad at all but only a hundred miles? That's not very far :scratch:

 

How did you know how far to push the strut into the upright/hub carrier?

 

Could you use this as a method of lowering the front of the car without decreasing your suspension travel?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

How is the wishbone angle? One of the benefits of R32 hubs etc is to enable you to lower the car without buggering up the geometry.

 

Corrados with lowered suspension tend to have bad brake dive and very wayward handling under power on badly cambered B roads.......because the wishbones are pointing up. VW got round that on the R32 with redesigned hubs and wishbones etc etc.

 

Did you use the S3 steering rack aswell?

[boost monkey 0]

Looks like an interesting hybrid build mate, but are the tie rod ends going up through the hubs as opposed to down through the hub for any particular reason?

 

I always thought the TREs went down from the top so that if the nut came off for whetever reason, the TRE couldn't potentially fall out of the hub

 

Maybe it's a hybrid build thing? :shrug:

[antonio_b12 0]

That's not bad at all but only a hundred miles? That's not very far :scratch:

 

How did you know how far to push the strut into the upright/hub carrier?

 

Could you use this as a method of lowering the front of the car without decreasing your suspension travel?

 

Yeah really need like 300miles under my belt and then access the damage, but im glad the wear is equal to each other.

 

I didnt really know how far to push the strut into the hub, trial and error i guess.

 

Regarding what i did with the front coilover units, i would suggest people dont do what i did, just because it can be dangerous! There is a metal plate welded on the existing S3 strut and which the bolt goes through and you tighten the hub, this helps the strut not to jump out of the hub at very high speeds. i.e. my front coilovers wont pass the MOT, but i can just put the orginal ones back on. when due.

 

How is the wishbone angle? One of the benefits of R32 hubs etc is to enable you to lower the car without buggering up the geometry.

 

Corrados with lowered suspension tend to have bad brake dive and very wayward handling under power on badly cambered B roads.......because the wishbones are pointing up. VW got round that on the R32 with redesigned hubs and wishbones etc etc.

 

Did you use the S3 steering rack aswell?

 

Wishbone Angle is completely Flat!

 

My coily's are set 3inch's from the bottom of the thread, and the wishbones are flat, i then screw them down further to just under 2 inchs from the bottom and the wishbones were still flat. (Remember this is when the car is on the ground) When i get time i will take a pic.

 

No Im still using the VR Rack, should be able you give some feedback on that situation in a couple of days, (more like a week).

 

But i wanted to see how this mod would run with the stock Top Mount and how bad it would ruin the tyres.

 

I still have my Eccentric Adjustable Top Mounts (MED) just in case.

 

[antonio_b12 0]

Looks like an interesting hybrid build mate, but are the tie rod ends going up through the hubs as opposed to down through the hub for any particular reason?

 

I always thought the TREs went down from the top so that if the nut came off for whetever reason, the TRE couldn't potentially fall out of the hub

 

Maybe it's a hybrid build thing? :shrug:

 

Yeah the Golf GTI anniversary (180bhp) Hubs have the design of the TRE's going down the hubs, But the S3 / R32 have the TRE's going up the Hubs, to reduce bump steer.

[boost monkey 0]

Ah, interesting stuff. I had no idea TRE geometry could invoke or reduce bump steer.

[antonio_b12 0]

Some pics of the wishbone angle, need to drop the springs down by half an inch to an inch, then it will be just right.

 

Drivers side

 

 

Other side

 

 

General view of how the wheel sits

 

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Aha, I can see the pics at the start now, so it all makes sense. Good skills my man :notworthy: Glad someone's experimented with that.

 

The feathering of of your tyres is tracking related I think, the camber angle doesn't look too far off to me. You want to be around 1 degree negative, I'd say yours is around -1.3 looking at that pic. Yes, I'm sad....I've done camber soooooooo many times on mine, I can do it by eye now.

 

Wishbones could do with being a little lower than parallel to be honest, but where they are now won't cause too much of a problem on day to day driving.

[antonio_b12 0]

Bit of an update.

 

I took the car to get it tracked awhile back, may be a month or so and the tracking place said they couldnt do it, as there wasn't enough thread within the TRE to bring the car back to straight (suffering from 1/2inch of Toe In).

 

So i started to bug my local GSF and VW dealerships to find a longer TRE (thread wise) to make this work, after not much luck looking at A3's, Seat Leon's, TT's, and mk4 GTI stuff (TRE's) they weren't any better. And in fact overall they were a longer Track Rod End (Physically) so that would mean even more Toe In.

 

So what options did i have? Maybe fit a complete S3/R32 etc Steering Rack, of maybe see if the S3 PAS rods could be interchangeable with the VR Rack. Changing the Rods would be great as that would mean i could run proper S3/R32 TRE's, which are much bigger and stronger.

 

The tracking place said they only needed an inch in total to get the tracking bang on, so i decided to crop the rods.

 

So what i did is cut of 1cm off from each side.

 

Standard Length

 

 

1cm Off

 

 

Now this didnt take long at tall, and is much easier than doing a RACK swap! If you have a dremal and a cutting piece your laughing 6min job each side!

 

Now what im liking about this Mod, its forcing you to run 16's which i personally think is the best compromise of handling and grip, but we wont start a debate! This is what happened when i tried 17's on! (of course you can run 15's as well, just not under 312's)

 

8 x 17 Momo GT2 (215/45/17)

 

 

Closer look

 

 

I couldnt turn the steering wheel, Modifying the front bumper and removing the inside plastics will help. But still :shrug:

 

Right back to Tracking, took the car to the same place today and got it sorted.

 

But i paid the price for driving the car when it wasnt tracked up. The Front tyres are shagged, you cant actually see how bad they are, but if you run your hand over the tyres you can feel it. So i changed the Rears to the Front for now.

 

Theres a degree difference in camber between the left and right side (front), tracking is spot on now. The guy said the camber should be ok, "its not a huge deal tyres are always gona wear".

 

But then again he would say that, hmmm what do you guys make of the results?

 

[antonio_b12 0]

Aha, I can see the pics at the start now, so it all makes sense. Good skills my man :notworthy: Glad someone's experimented with that.

 

The feathering of of your tyres is tracking related I think, the camber angle doesn't look too far off to me. You want to be around 1 degree negative, I'd say yours is around -1.3 looking at that pic. Yes, I'm sad....I've done camber soooooooo many times on mine, I can do it by eye now.

 

Wishbones could do with being a little lower than parallel to be honest, but where they are now won't cause too much of a problem on day to day driving.

 

Cheers, after speaking to PhatVR6 awhile back on edition38 forum he mention he had abandoned the TT hubs and went back to VR ones, something regarding suspension fitting. So im glad the tracking is sorted now.

 

Camber issues seem to be ok, as you mention. But the rear is seriously twitchy at the moment regarding the un-tracked tyres, doesn't help having turbo power either. I still have the S3 top mounts so i may experiment with them and see if they help with the camber.

 

Will be lowering the car abit more to see how that works with everything, i guess its just trial and error til im happy with it. But considering my handling mods are only Hubs, coily's and 16's the car feel bloody great for now! still need a rear strut brace & rear anti-roll bar.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Rear brace and ARB make a big difference to an old Corrado shell!

 

Been looking on the market for a good rear brace and the only good one (Neuspeed) is sadly no longer made. So I think the best option now is to get one welded in whilst all my interior is out. A nice 4 point triangulated one :D

 

One thing you might find useful with turbo grunt is a load of caster, so I'd be using those tasty MEDs if I were you, in the max caster position!

 

One thing I found with the OE rubber TMs and standard 3.5 deg of caster was the steering wheel tug was bad. Solid top mounts seem to make it a whole lot more stable under power. I've also discovered a couple of layers of Hammerite underbody seal (dried) under the MEDs gets rid of all the droning noises :D

 

Good skills on the track rods. The simplest ideas are always the best !

[CrazyDave 0]

Blimey Tony, good to see your not afraid to try new things!

 

Top skills :D

[antonio_b12 0]

Rear brace and ARB make a big difference to an old Corrado shell!

 

Been looking on the market for a good rear brace and the only good one (Neuspeed) is sadly no longer made. So I think the best option now is to get one welded in whilst all my interior is out. A nice 4 point triangulated one :D

 

One thing you might find useful with turbo grunt is a load of caster, so I'd be using those tasty MEDs if I were you, in the max caster position!

 

One thing I found with the OE rubber TMs and standard 3.5 deg of caster was the steering wheel tug was bad. Solid top mounts seem to make it a whole lot more stable under power. I've also discovered a couple of layers of Hammerite underbody seal (dried) under the MEDs gets rid of all the droning noises :D

 

Good skills on the track rods. The simplest ideas are always the best !

 

Rear Brace & ARB will be going on after a trip to the Ring. Don't trust myself with turbo grunt!

 

Yeah i still have plans on fitting the MED's adjustable top mounts, again just want to see how viable this mod is with stock top mounts.

 

Have to say steering from 12 to 8. & 12 to 4, feels great, light and responsive. Turning further gets a tad harder, but i didnt have this scenerio when it was totally un-tracked.

 

Cheers for the tip regarding the hammerite, that must be the only head-ache when fitting solid top mounts, getting it to fit flush with the body.

 

Blimey Tony, good to see your not afraid to try new things!

 

Top skills :D

 

Cheers Dave, but definitely inspired via PhatVR6's work in his thread. Shame he's not on this forum anymore.