Steering knock

[G60rob 0]

Turning the steering wheel to the right about 180 degrees causes a gentle "clonk" sound. It doesn't do it turning left, but if I turn the wheel more than 180 degrees left and start to turn it back clockwise, it clonks then. The steering otherwise feels OK.

Local garage man, who is usually reliable, says it needs an exchange rack (£130 + VAT + labour) as they do tend to develop wear after this sort of mileage (115,000 miles). He says the ball joints and track rod ends are OK and that the problem is definitely in the rack.

Is this likely the right explanation?

I don't feel quite happy with his diagnosis, because it sounds to me as if the clonk is in the steering column (though I suppose it could be being transmitted up the column from the rack.)

I don't understand how a rack would wear to cause this particular symptom, surely it would be more likely to wear in the straight-ahead position and become clonky there?

Couldn't it be the steering column universal joint?

[davidwort 0]

I think the guy at the garage is pretty way off the mark, the racks don't wear that badly and certainly shouldn't be shot at 115K, when they do fail it's usually through leaking seals/valves

far more likely it's like mine, a combination of wear in the height adjuster mechanism and the bearing at the bottom of the column.

it could also possibly be a CV joint (outer) if it makes repeated clonks/knocks on full lock, try triving at low speed on full lock, particularly when it's cold

don't think it's the UJ either they are pretty strong.

[G60rob 0]

Well, davidwort, I hope you're right that it's unlikely to be the UJ, because I believe that's not replaceable as a separate part, so a new steering column is the only cure. The lower bearing I think is replaceable.

Can anything be done about wear in the height adjuster mechanism?

I still don't understand why it only clonks when passing through this orientation and nowhere else.

As for the CV joints, it does it when stationary.

[davidwort 0]

Well, davidwort, I hope you're right that it's unlikely to be the UJ, because I believe that's not replaceable as a separate part, so a new steering column is the only cure. The lower bearing I think is replaceable.

Can anything be done about wear in the height adjuster mechanism?

I still don't understand why it only clonks when passing through this orientation and nowhere else.

As for the CV joints, it does it when stationary.

 

the UJ is very much replaceable on it's own, some VWs aren't.

the adjuster mech is part of the column and not fixable though, and I'm not sure on the adjustable column that the bottom bearing is replaceable, that may only be on the rare fixed column, which is what I'm going to replace mine with.

 

It may be that my symptoms are not identical to yours, I get a clunk when correcting the steering after making a sharp turn, e.g. off a roundabout, and if I hold the wheel straight ahead and try to move it in a sort of diagonal 10 o'clock to 4 o'clock sort of position you can feel play in the top joint, holding the UJ under the dash you can feel the movement of the column in the tube at the bottom bearing too, definately loads of play there.

[G60rob 0]

davidwort wrote: the UJ is very much replaceable on it's own

 

I was going from the Bentley manual: "Notes: The height-adjustable steering column cannot be disassembled. The steering column is to be replaced complete if there is damage to the column tube, column or universal joint."

 

I think maybe I was wrong about the bottom bearing.

 

I'll have a fondle of the UJ sometime and see if I can feel any play.

 

I have to turn my steering wheel more than half a turn to get the clonk.

[krnau 0]

ALl cars I have owned have had this "CLONK" noise. I heard it was some kind of don't-know-what mount, but I can't remember. However, mine does this clonk once a week approx, so when it happens everyday, it will be the moment to look at it ;)

[davidwort 0]

davidwort wrote: the UJ is very much replaceable on it's own

 

I was going from the Bentley manual: "Notes: The height-adjustable steering column cannot be disassembled. The steering column is to be replaced complete if there is damage to the column tube, column or universal joint."

 

ah, no, that's referring to the joint in the column itself at the top that makes the height adjustment, which is technically a UJ

I was referring to what most people call the UJ, which is the column to rack connector.

[coolrado 0]

Try tightening up the two pinch bolts at the top and bottom of the steering column, (number 17 and 19 in the above picture) It's quite common for them to work loose over time and can cause odd knocking or slack in the steering.

I was told mine needed a new rack by a VW mechanic when it had its MOT, which i knew was a load of Bo11ocks as i have the reciept from the previous owner for a new steering rack at 60k miles, it was just the loose pinch bolts, had the same on the caddy van and the same on my mates MK2.

[G60rob 0]

 

ah, no, that's referring to the joint in the column itself at the top that makes the height adjustment, which is technically a UJ

I was referring to what most people call the UJ, which is the column to rack connector.

The diagram in the manual for the height-adjustable steering column only shows one UJ, at the bottom, which is the column to rack connector. This is the one I meant. It shows a pinch bolt, so I agree it looks as if the column to rack UJ should be replaceable. GetImage2.jpg[/attachment:15x292js]

There's a warning in the manual: CAUTION! Old and new universal joint shafts and steering gear pinions are not interchangeable. Always replace as a matched pair.

I assume new UJs are all 22 teeth now, so I'd need a new pinion. Is this easy to replace?

2.8l 24v Climatronic system.pdfGetImage.jpg[/attachment:15x292js]1- Steering gear pinion

Previously: 36 teeth

New: 22 teeth

2- Lower universal joint shaft

Previously: 36 teeth

New: 22 teeth

3- Power steering gear

 

Try tightening up the two pinch bolts at the top and bottom of the steering column, (number 17 and 19 in the above picture)

I take it you're referring to the picture of the non-adjustable steering column, different from mine, which only seems to have one pinch bolt, on the column to rack UJ (not shown on davidwort's second ETKA diagram.) It certainly looks as though this should be the first thing for me to check.

[davidwort 0]

the UJ and rack input changed to 22 spline around the time of the facelift, 1992 ish

 

the two pinch bolts referred to in the top ETKA diagram are simply the one holding the UJ to the bottom of the column, and the other end of the UJ to the rack input shaft

 

they shouldn't be too difficult to change, I took a polo one out the other day in a few minutes and the column and rack is the same, was a bit of a fiddle coaxing the bolt out and turning the steering so it had clearance to slide out, the carpets etc were in the way a little

[G60rob 0]

Thanks, I think I've got it now - a bit slow on the uptake. :roll:

Might have to change the rack input pinion from 36 to 22 spline - easy or not?

[davidwort 0]

Thanks, I think I've got it now - a bit slow on the uptake. :roll:

Might have to change the rack input pinion from 36 to 22 spline - easy or not?

:lol: no, it's just a case of using a UJ that matches the rack you have, there's early racks with 36 spline inputs and 36 spline bottom connection on the UJ's and late racks and UJ's with 22 on each.

[G60rob 0]

Sorry for the delay, I've been away.

So it's still possible to get a new 36 spline UJ?

 

BTW, I've been out for a fondle of the accessible bits of the steering column behind the footwell panel. The top UJ pinch bolt wasn't loose. I could imagine a bit of play in the top UJ or even the lower column bearing, but I'm not certain.

One funny thing: the clonk isn't there when the engine isn't running. Something to do with different loading on the joints without PAS assistance, or a pointer to a PAS/rack fault?

Could be coincidence, but this started after the radiator support member was replaced, which involved taking off and refitting PAS pipes.

[davidwort 0]

good point, I don't know if VW still stock the early UJ

one other thing, I'd check the four rack to subframe mounting bolts, just to make sure it isn't the rack that's moving a small amount

[Adz The Rat 0]

When I had car serviced in March I was told the steering rack will need replacing at some point soon (had it done at work so I know they arent lying) and tonight it has started to knock quite loudly, more when on right lock than on left.

Those diagrams above are just gibberish to me (sorry!) so what please should I be asking them to look at 2moro??

[boost monkey 0]

Rob, david has covered 99% of your issues, and he is completely right! I still hail him as the steering god on here :grin:

 

the UJ is completely swappable; I wouldn't bother giving it a feel because any play is so minute that is too small to notice by playing with it, but unfortunately the variances can be large enough to give you steering issues. Only way to get around this is to swap the UJ for a known good one or at least a low mileage one.

 

If you need a 36-spline double ended UJ let me know as I have a couple kicking about I think, had about 4 early racks recently! I can pop them both in the post at cost no probs.

 

Adz, really don't know mate sorry. Never had a rack do this kind of thing. I do know the internal mech can wear in one direction though so could well be that - possible new rack time I'm afraid which could amount to £££ if you're not willing/able to DIY. Otherwise, VAG still sell a set of seals which are about £25 a set. I don't know whether they will fix your problem as I never fitted mine due to not having the special tools, so perhaps a swapout rack is the best idea all round.

 

Let us know how you get on.

[Toad 0]

Mine makes a clonky noise, and after investigation, the steering rack is slightly loose, and moves about 3-4mm each way.

[Adz The Rat 0]

Well my mate Dean had it on ramp today, had a play with the CV joints etc and it all felt good. Ball joints were only done last week too.

He took it on a road test, said it felt fine, said we will check it out next week.

 

So me and Em went out in it tonight, noise was gone and car felt as solid as always. Weird. Anyway will get it back up on ramps next week for a look.

[G60rob 0]

If you need a 36-spline double ended UJ let me know as I have a couple kicking about I think, had about 4 early racks recently! I can pop them both in the post at cost no probs.

 

 

Thanks for the offer, boost monkey. Could you PM me with an idea of cost? Were you thinking of sending both in case one is better than the other?

I've let this topic lapse recently because I've been preoccupied with having a respray, and that's led to its own problems which are still to be sorted out. So I haven't got any further with pinning down the cause of the clonk.

But if your spare UJ(s) aren't going to cost too much I might as well take up your offer in case it turns out I need one.

[Oliver2 0]

Well, davidwort, I hope you're right that it's unlikely to be the UJ, because I believe that's not replaceable as a separate part, so a new steering column is the only cure. The lower bearing I think is replaceable.

Can anything be done about wear in the height adjuster mechanism?

I still don't understand why it only clonks when passing through this orientation and nowhere else.

As for the CV joints, it does it when stationary.

 

the UJ is very much replaceable on it's own, some VWs aren't.

the adjuster mech is part of the column and not fixable though, and I'm not sure on the adjustable column that the bottom bearing is replaceable, that may only be on the rare fixed column, which is what I'm going to replace mine with.

 

 

Hi guys sorry I'm having the same trouble with play at the top of my column and am just trying to figure it out, although Dave seems to have sorted it with the Polo column is there anyway of securing the adjustable mech in place by welding it as I don't see why anyone would need the other positions unless there 3ft tall..... Sorry if this is a completely ridiculous suggestion, trying to get my head round it.

 

Cheers Oli

[fla 9]

 

ah, no, that's referring to the joint in the column itself at the top that makes the height adjustment, which is technically a UJ

I was referring to what most people call the UJ, which is the column to rack connector.

The diagram in the manual for the height-adjustable steering column only shows one UJ, at the bottom, which is the column to rack connector. This is the one I meant. It shows a pinch bolt, so I agree it looks as if the column to rack UJ should be replaceable. GetImage2.jpg[/attachment:3i2rt83g]

There's a warning in the manual: CAUTION! Old and new universal joint shafts and steering gear pinions are not interchangeable. Always replace as a matched pair.

I assume new UJs are all 22 teeth now, so I'd need a new pinion. Is this easy to replace?

2.8l 24v Climatronic system.pdfGetImage.jpg[/attachment:3i2rt83g]1- Steering gear pinion

Previously: 36 teeth

New: 22 teeth

2- Lower universal joint shaft

Previously: 36 teeth

New: 22 teeth

3- Power steering gear

 

Try tightening up the two pinch bolts at the top and bottom of the steering column, (number 17 and 19 in the above picture)

I take it you're referring to the picture of the non-adjustable steering column, different from mine, which only seems to have one pinch bolt, on the column to rack UJ (not shown on davidwort's second ETKA diagram.) It certainly looks as though this should be the first thing for me to check.

 

Is there any way to rplace the spring in teh top pic without removing the whole column? I've got a bit of a knock in my steering, moving it either way and i've just realised what the spring on my workbench was for :epicfail:

 

Edit: its not copied the pics over for some reason and i dont know how to - i'm referring to teh Bentley pic of the steering column, with the spring being teh bottom one above the CV

[fla 9]

Ok, you cant replace teh spring without removing the column. However, it will be easier if you align the UJ bolt at the end of the column horizontally before remove as when you refit the column it is easier to align it quickly to refit the locking bolt (hope that makes sense???)