Supercharged 2 Posted February 3, 2004 Bit of a prob with my mates 1990 Golf Clipper Cabriolet... The fuel pump (external unit) has been getting noisy for a while, on the way to GSF to get a new one it cut out completly, then would not start at all - he eventually bought the part and fitted but has since only been able to turn the engine, it splutters for a few seconds then dies. We think there is also a pump in the tank (accesed under rear seat) - could it be that one has gone at the same time? or maybe the fact that it was not working properly was causing the other one to become more and more noisy? It is a 1.8 8v GTi - K jet (not sure of engine code off hand), we don't think its the idle valve or 5th Injector as it cut out when going along, any advice welcome before he shells out for another pump! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
W3RKD 0 Posted February 3, 2004 filter !! i had this exact thing on my wifes cabby too! completly solved it... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Supercharged 2 Posted February 3, 2004 Cheers mate but he fitted one at the same time... ( I will check with him tho and it may be worth trying another one incase its blocked of something silly) looking on ETKA etc it looks like the engine code should be DX and there is only the ext fuel pump but he has been under the cover and there is definetly a pump-like device in the tank! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Henny 0 Posted February 4, 2004 ETKA says that all K jet MKI Golfs had only one pump, cabrio or otherwise. The thing in the tank is the fuel gauge sender... The thing to do is to remove the fuel main fuel pipe into the metering head and secure it into a glass container, turn on the ignition and see if you get a real JET of petrol out of it, or a little trickle... (you may need to turn it on and off a couple of times to get it to fire... If it's a trickle, you're pump's probably dead, or the gauze filter at the bottom of the fuel tank is blocked. To get at the gauze filter, remove the gauge sender and if you shine a torch (use a good waterproof one so you don't get any sparks!!!) into the hole you should be able to see a plastic and mesh filter right at the bottom of the tank. Put a magnet on the end of a stick and move it around the gauze to remove all the rust debris from around the filter. If there's loads of rust in there, then you'll need a new filler neck and possibly have to drain the tank and clean it out properly (also change the fuel filter afterwards as this will be blocked again!) If it's a jet of fuel, turn it all off, reconnect it and remove the feed to the fuel pressure regulator (bolted to the gearbox end of the engine) again, get the pump to fire and see what comes out... reconnect and try the return from the regulator... You can probably guess which bits to test after this as K-Jet is dead simple and nearly always is broken due to debris in the fuel system! :roll: :wink: I'd be suprised if you'd managed to kill a new pump that quickly, they're pretty robust and tend to keep working just complain loudly for a bit before they die! On a different though, have you checked the fuel pump relay? Could be faulty and have been known to make the pump noisy due to intermittent connections... :| Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted February 4, 2004 Ah the good old DX engine.....yep, MK1s just had one external pump wrapped in a nice foam jacket to keep it warm, bless! Seriously though.....try hitting the fuel accumulator with a hammer as they often seize up on MK1s. It's the coke can sized jobbie near the rear axle, offside. Also worth checking the relay as Henny said because it may have burned out if the pump was running too hot prior to it's demise. Being slung under the car too, it's very audbile but unlike MK2s, there is no priming stage (hence the pressure accumulator) so you should hear it when working........you'll need to bypass the relay in order to run it without the engine running though...... There is no pump in the tank, just the fuel level sender apparatus..... unless VW fitted lift pumps to late MK1s, but I doubt it.....if there is, then that's probably the cause! Give us a shout if you get stuck and I'll pop over and have a look.... K Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Supercharged 2 Posted February 4, 2004 Cheers guys, was wondering about the accumulator after looking on ETKA.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
h100vw 0 Posted February 4, 2004 Kev, MK1s do prime. The pump runs for a couple of seconds after the ign is off. The accumulator does provide pressure for a short while after the ign is off, to help with hot starting. It also damps out fluctuations in pump pressure. I have fitted MK2 fuel pump relays to MK1s in the past to help with hot starting problems. That is a treatment of the symptoms really. There was probably a leaky injector which was allowing the residual pressure to drop. Out of curiosity I just looked at ETKA and there is a lift pump in the late Cabbys. Some of them had digifant engines I think. Gavin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Henny 0 Posted February 4, 2004 Out of curiosity I just looked at ETKA and there is a lift pump in the late Cabbys. Some of them had digifant engines I think. Gavin Yup, the last of the MKI cabs were digifant and so had the lifter pump... K-jet ones never did though... 8) I spotted that on Etka as well last night! :wink: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GazzaG60 0 Posted February 4, 2004 my scirocco had a lift pump. it had a storm engine in it with the big external and a internal lifter pump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Supercharged 2 Posted February 4, 2004 OK, cheers for your help so far guys... a bit more investigation this evening - The part number of the external pump is 171 906 091A and was Bosch, the one he bought from GSF is a Pierburg unit but is listed on the invoice with the same part number, It was different as it came with a jacket attached to it, the original one did not and also the check valve on the new one is different, the old one looks like it has a non return mech (should we swap these??) - the new one did fit but only just (not as good as the original) The worrying thing is VW say it should be a 4 bar pump and his is only 3 we think?? - Also talking to Kev earlier, he said that the K Jet system should be 75PSI which equates to 5.35 bar.... :roll: Part 2 - It does not seem to exist on ETKA but there is a lift pump which is also very noisy so I think this will be the next one to try and is hopefully cheaper than the other one! - Bosch 191 906 092 Hopefully I was right in thinking that one had put more strain on the other one and we just changed the wrong pump to start with - especially as I can't find it on ETKA for any Golf Cab - atho Gav did but this is not Digifant. If this does not work we'll try the accumulator and maybe the mk2 relay - the new pump does seem to run by the way and is noticably quieter that the origianal so i think needed replaceing anyway - just not as badly as the lifter! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Supercharged 2 Posted February 4, 2004 Heres a pic of the float unit - the silver part is the lift pump with the strainer underneath... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted February 4, 2004 A lift pump in a MK1, now there's a thing! You learn something everyday! I think I've still got a lift pump in the cupboard from my MK2 16V days....which may or may not fit. I've checked my base pressure info and it is the KR 16V engine that runs at 75 psi......but I'm sure I read somewhere/was told that the MK1 DX engine requires a similar pressure, but if VW say 4 bar, then they must be right. Actually, thinking about it, I retained the standard MK1 pump when I did my 16V conversion in the MK1 and the engine ran fine....so the pressures must be similar? K Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Supercharged 2 Posted February 4, 2004 Cheers Kev - Might have a look at that pump if I can't get a new one tomorrow, the part number is listed above but I just noticed it has a G on the end of it - not sure how much it will be so may be worth trying yours if its correct first - if you don't mind digging it out. As Gav says its a late Mk1 (Clipper) so shares alot of mk2 parts - bit of a hybrid and built by Karmann (remind you of anything? - Just as reliable it seems :lol: ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted February 5, 2004 The Karmann Cabriolets were built a lot better than the Corrado, but Karmann can only work with what they're given, i.e. shite Passat parts! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Henny 0 Posted February 5, 2004 holy sh!$£, a MKI K-jet with a lift pump... :crazyeyes: you live and learn... :oops: :roll: :lol: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Supercharged 2 Posted February 7, 2004 Just to let you know its all sorted, I put the new lift pump on the float assembly and my mate fitted it this morning and he's pleased to be back on the road, cheers for the help guys! :wink: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted February 7, 2004 Locksville for this then and thanks for sharing the info about MK1 lift pumps Mr Charged :lol: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
