track day setup

[ryanmac 10]

Hi all

 

I am new to owning a corrado and plan to use it for track days. I was wondering what setup people are running and how they find it.

 

The car has kw v1 coilovers which I will keep for the moment and it has 17" alloys which I would have liked to swap for 15" but I believe the brakes will stop me from doing this.

 

With regards to widening the track on the front end what is required to do this? and I take it theres only spacers that can be fitted on the rear?

 

Also I see you can get the yellow and purple polybushes for the car but not the red poly race ones or can you and I just haven't spotted them?

 

My plans suspension wise are the full car poly bushed, on the front it will have adjustable top mounts, adjustable wishbones, uprated anti roll bar(any recommendations) and upper and lower strut braces. At the rear though all I can see to do is uprate the arb and fit a strut brace(neuspeed) unless there is a camber/castor kit for the rears?

 

That is what's planned anyway

 

cheers

 

Ryan

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Are we talking VR6 or 4 cylinder here?

 

If it's already on KW suspension and 17s, it might be worth doing a few trackdays with it as it is and then systematically address the weaknesses from there.

 

We could recommend a spec sheet as long as your arm but it might not work for you. Best to suck it and see in the first instance.

[VR6 0]

Kev, you have to approve the thread first (as he is a user with only a few posts) otherwise no one will be able to see it.

 

Administrative drop down list from top of the list and hit 'approve'. The option showing now will be 'unapprove' now as I've already approved it.

[RowanVW 0]

Hiya, mines widetracked i believe all that is needed is a mk3 golf 5 stud set-up or similar, and just swap the subframes over.

 

What do you mean by adjustable wishbones? Can't say ive seen them before.

 

I would worry less about the wheels diameter and more about the width and tyre type, get them as wide and as slick as possible and you shouldn't see too much gravel!

[boost monkey 0]

why do you want a camber/castor kit for the rears?

[ryanmac 10]

its not that I want one I was just wondering if there was one or is it pretty well setup on the rear end. I had a camber/ caster system built up for my mk1 before breaking it but then I had changed it from beam to wishbones.

 

Thats good with the wishbones as I have a full mk3 gti front end in my garage. Does it need longer drive shafts though?

 

The wishbones are ones that I have designed and built for my mk1 but the design only requires minimal changes for fitment between cars.

 

Tuning and setting up a corrado for track is all new to me as I have never owned one before.

[Rob_B 0]

why do you want a camber/castor kit for the rears?

 

To adjust the camber on the rear?

[boost monkey 0]

:facepalm:

 

why would you want to change the camber on the rear? they don't steer.

[Rob_B 0]

Adjusting the camber on the rear will give different handling characteristics based upon how the weight is transferred as the car accelerates, decelerates and corners. It doesn't matter that they are not steering wheels. As would having adjustable toe on the rear. No need for caster.

The more adjustments you have, the better the handling potential

[boost monkey 0]

I have never heard of that before.

 

Can you elaborate, or point me towards some books? I have never come across anything which has told me that the dynamic loads through each of the four contact patches is affected by camber.

[Rob_B 0]

I can't point you towards any books. I would have thought that if it was a pointless adjustment, it wouldn't be available on any car. I guess race cars must have it wrong

[dannyboy 0]

:lol: rob_b.

 

Monkey youve never heard of putting more negitive camber on the rears?prob only thing that keeps rear end of the corrado going in straight ahead postion rather than sideways ! On the track as you take a corner the tyre and suspension flex.You want as much of the tyre surface on the ground as it flexes to its max. so having negitive chamber actually helps traction around corners.

 

Pain in the A&$e on normal roads as your tyres will wear on the inside much faster!like my last pair

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yeah, Corrados belong to the "cock a hind leg" school of hatch backs, so when the rear end leans, more neg camber will indeed increase the contact patch. Obviously running more neg camber than stock on the road would destroy the tyres, but it has it's place on the track.

[RowanVW 0]

we had a golf running about 5 degrees of neg camber, was a beast, you can over-do it though, you lose traction in the straights and when the corner doesn't violently pitch the car over, about 2 - 3 degrees is best all round!

 

toe in at rear gives stability, toe out gives over steer, just imagine the wheels as ski's!

 

good starting point for you is 2mm toe out at the front and 2mm in at the rear.

 

If you wanna get even more serious, using flat patch scales can help you bias the weight for clockwise or anti clockwise tracks by using ballast and lowering the suspension struts individually. Any more info just ask! :)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Great info!

[Erny 0]

For widetrack you need corrado vr6/mk3 steering rack, driveshafts, wishbones and hubs. Good cheap modification, later mk3 gtis an vr6s had 288 front brakes also, an widetrack set up has a little more castor than the narrow track 4stud set up.

[boost monkey 0]

I have never heard of changing negative camber at the back despite finishing up a BEng in Motorsport Engineering at the moment!

 

I'll quiz my lecturers about it and see what they have to say. I've never bothered with trackdays (way too much £££ imo) so I've never really needed to know about it. Interesting that my degree hasn't mentioned it though.

 

---------- Post added at 08:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:37 PM ----------

 

Edit: do you want rear camber to generate camber thrust when turning? I've read something about that, but not much else tbh.

[dannyboy 0]

theres lots of stuff they wont tell you about motorsport in books and classes,you have to be trackside to see some of the stuff ive seen or didnt want to see!!

 

Cutting scuttle panel(where windscreen wiper motor is) off the fire wall to improve airflow through the engine bay and keep things cooler but not very safe if fire starts or engine goes pop.Drilling holes in the bell housing to save weight and cool clutch,gearbox oil coolers even water sprayer to cool brakes

 

theres lots of stuff you never see till you do a few track days with some of the professionals

[Purple Tom 0]

I'm big into modifying Mini's and its possible to get adjustable camber/tracking plates for the rear radius arms that allow you dial in negative camber and adjust the toe on the rear wheels to affect the handling. Lots of toe out is useful on Autotest cars for example, when spinning on the spot is handy.

 

However, I would have thought that on a Corrado, having negative camber on the back wouldn't make too much of a difference, as the beam moves in a fixed arc around its pivot. It might be handy on cars with fully independent rear suspension (with upper and lower wishbones), but maybe not as useful on the Corrado.

 

I could be talking rubbish there however, having had no experience of it, but the alignment of the rear wheels doesn't alter as the car rolls, unlike the front wheels.

[dannyboy 0]

corrado been a dead axle at the rear makes it more solid turn in at the rear than the front hence the 'cocking hind leg' effect.most new cars have independent rear which makes design more complicated and expensive... remember corrado was designed over 23 years ago using available parts hence the golf front suspension and passat rear beam

[coullstar 0]

Ive done a few track days now and all I have is adjustable coilovers. Never had any real issues with the car even in the rain. Seemed to have plenty of grip. Obviosuly there was understeer at some points but only really in the wet. You can see I have a relatively soft set up from the photos.

[ryanmac 10]

Cheers for the reply guys.

 

I have had some track cars that you were able to adjust the camber etc on the rear just to give it a better feel round the track. I think at the moment I will stick with the adjustable front end as I may have to change the rear beam anyway. The car has had a slight knock and the rear passenger side wheel is tucked in slightly.

 

I have another question....Is the corrado meant to be four stud as I have five stud wheels or is it because it has the audi 320mm brakes fitted that it has been changed over....

 

Ryan

[coullstar 0]

4 stud cars were the 4cyl versions, the VR was the only with 5 stud.

[dannyboy 0]

nice motor coullstar! wish i lived closer to a track. Cant use mine as a track car as its my daily