Ricks VR6 - Rebuild VR or 24v? advice please

[rickdonald 10]

Hi everyone, been here for ages now but have been a bit shy. Thought it was about time I set up one of these threads.

 

Got my first one about 4 years ago now, a 1.8 valver, and loved it, writing this now im realising how much i miss it! Even with my VR, I miss the handling, the stiffer steering and the way it used to cock its rear wheel up when you had to (carefully) bump it off the kerb. Hopefully some new decent coilovers and an Eibach anti-roll bar on the VR should sort that out.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]49501[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]49502[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]49503[/ATTACH]

 

Anyway after about 2 years of driving the 16v I realised my insurance had gone down enough to justify putting it right back up again by buying a VR.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]49507[/ATTACH]

 

Came with a Miltek exhaust and FK suspension shocks and springs.

 

Have done a little work to it since, Top coolant hose blew, so replaced that.....radiator started to leak, so changed that

[ATTACH=CONFIG]49506[/ATTACH]

.......expansion tank sprang a leak, so replaced that.....aux water pump stopped working, managed to fix that..........aux water pump hose started to leak.....ignored it! :dance:

 

Tinted the rear lights red, detailed the front lights, and fitted an uprated loom.

Had a few old door handles lying about so had a little play with wiring up some leds in the door handles to come on when the car is unlocked.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]49511[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]49510[/ATTACH]

 

Also had a go at modernising the illuminated switches.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]49512[/ATTACH]

 

They need perfecting though, need sunglasses at the moment so gets a bit distracting on long drives in the dark

 

Recently managed to get some 17" Speedlines. Which I'm made up with, just think i could do with some coilovers though to sort out the ride height!

[ATTACH=CONFIG]49504[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]49505[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]49508[/ATTACH]

 

Next plans are to have a good go at changing the ABS pump unit as the current on seems to be abit tempremental! Also going to change the front discs, the RH front ABS speed sensor and need to change an outer C.V boot on the left too. Should be fun! Maybe while I'm at it I will repaint the callipers black :scratch: still not convinced by them!

 

Anyway just thought id show and tell, hope you all like. Any questions or comments just give me a shout

 

Cheers

 

Rick

Edited January 27, 2012 by rickdonald

[Critical_Mass 10]

Welcome mate. Love the heater dials! You dont by any chance have a "how to guide"? ;)

 

And also love the 17" speedlines - Drooool

[Pat_McCrotch 0]

Ooh details on the heater panel please! :D

[sexybourbon 0]

Nice car bud nice colour and im jealous of the wheels oo an welcome haha

[rickdonald 10]

I haven't got a how to as such but will put up any pics I can find tomorrow night, and a step by step, although its not actually in the car at the min, I tried to dim it down abit the other day by adding resistors, but accidentally crossed wires and blew all the red LEDs....oh that was a happy moment! But will have a scout round the shed tomorrow and write something up.it's not too difficult tbh, and in the grand scheme of things doesn't cost much, maybe £40 or 50 for everything if I remember right.

[fla 9]

impressive work, ride height looks pretty good imho ;)

[Critical_Mass 10]

I haven't got a how to as such but will put up any pics I can find tomorrow night, and a step by step, although its not actually in the car at the min, I tried to dim it down abit the other day by adding resistors, but accidentally crossed wires and blew all the red LEDs....oh that was a happy moment! But will have a scout round the shed tomorrow and write something up.it's not too difficult tbh, and in the grand scheme of things doesn't cost much, maybe £40 or 50 for everything if I remember right.

 

That would be awesome fella! :D

[rickdonald 10]

Ok a quick how to for the illuminated dials that i made

 

Shopping list/required

 

SMD LEDs (have a look at phenoptix.com) I got the 1206 ones, as they were the biggest and easiest to handle, maybe the smaller ones would help the panel fit more snugly when re-assembling, but may be a bit fiddly to solder

A "my first" PCB kit from Maplins

Soldering iron & solder

Insulation tape

Ruler (optional)

 

First I took the front panel off my heater dials to cut one of the circuit board blanks in the kit to size, if I remember right it was 185mm by 65mm with 3 holes cut along the center-line at 46.25mm 92.5mm and 138.75mm, sorry for the patronising dimensions, annoying habit of being an engineer!

 

Next I worked out that the green and blue LEDs run on about 3.4v and the reds 2v so made up circuits in groups of 4 green or blue LEDs and 6 red LEDs (or 5 red with one blue) this meant that in the groups there was 12v of LEDs in total so each LED group could be connected in parallel across the original 12v light circuit. I found that running it like this meant the LEDs where a bit bright for long dark drives, and if i could do it again would either use more LEDs per group or add in resistors.

 

 

Next you plan on where you want your LEDs in order to light up the dials, I did it as shown below, using 7 groups.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]49528[/ATTACH]

 

Then using the marker pen supplied in the PCB kit, mark on your board where you want the tracks to run, I did mine so the bottom of the board was +ve and the top –ve, and each of the track ran from the +ve to the negative, through one of the LED groups.

 

Can kind of see this below, excuse my lack of using a ruler when making the circuit tracks, when I was doing this, i was a bit rushed and wanted to see how it looked. So I just drew on the tracks free-hand

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]49529[/ATTACH]

 

Once you have drawn your current tracks over the PCB board using the permenant marker, just follow the instrcutions supplied in the kit. Submerge the circuit board in the echant and then leave for about half an hour till all the excess copper coating has gone. When you remove it you should be left with just the permenant maker on the board, and the copper coating underneath, just wash off the marker pen and you are left with your current tracks. Remember to leave breaks in the tracks of about 1-2mm for each of the LEDs.

Tried to do a quick diagram of the process:

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]49526[/ATTACH]

 

Next just solder on all the LEDs, I found a fine tip on the soldering iron, and a pair of needle nose pliers were fine. Even though the SMD LEDs are tiny, remember to solder them the right way, the symbol on the bottom should be like the one in diagram 5, showing the +ve (anode) and –ve(cathode) ends. I also used a Multimeter just to double check the continuities in the circuits, making sure that there was continuity where there should have been , and not where there shouldn’t!

Once its all soldered up its pretty much ready. Again because I was in a rush I just drilled a couple of small holes through the common +ve and –ve tracks and soldered wires to hook it up to the original light power supply.

 

One note is that mine didn't fit 100%, the panel went back on top, but wouldn't clip back as far as it used to (without the circuit board behind it). Im sure with abit of fettling and trimming it would of been fine though. Im hoping to have another go along with making it abit dimmer in the near future, and ill be sure to take a few more pics on anything else i did.

 

Hope that helps anyway, sorry if its a bit vague but if anyone has any questions or if i have missed something out, just let us know.

Edited October 6, 2011 by rickdonald

[Critical_Mass 10]

Nice one mate. Maybe put that in a new post with appropriate title and ask a mod to sticky it :D

 

Thanks i'll be having a go at that. You know if you provide a service you'd make a fortune ;)

[Dude VR6 0]

I may try this out, been looking at boosting the heater control lights

[fla 9]

useful notes Rick. Just had a look at the Phenoptix site, and just wanted to know how high the SMDs actually sit, in light (!!??) of your comments regarding panel fit? The 0603s look tiny i dont know if i'd be able to solder them on with my soldering iron bits! TIA

[Dude VR6 0]

I have been looking on the maplin web site to find the PCB starter kit but can`t find anything. Can you give me a part number , or a web link please

[rickdonald 10]

useful notes Rick. Just had a look at the Phenoptix site, and just wanted to know how high the SMDs actually sit, in light (!!??) of your comments regarding panel fit? The 0603s look tiny i dont know if i'd be able to solder them on with my soldering iron bits! TIA

 

Hi mate use this website, it gives alot of information about the SMD LEDs, it says the 0603s are 0.6mm tall I think, the ones I used were about mm tall.

 

---------- Post added at 07:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:54 PM ----------

 

I have been looking on the maplin web site to find the PCB starter kit but can`t find anything. Can you give me a part number , or a web link please

 

I couldnt find the starter kit online either, it was by accident I found it, when I went into the store they had one on the shelf by all the rest of the circuitboard parts. Give your nearest store a bell and see if they have one. Hope this helps

[fla 9]

Rick - each led group looks like they are all in series between the two parallel lines of +ve & -ve, or have i misread your notes?

[Stonejag 10]

Thats not quite how LEDs work but you're a novice so I'll let you off ;) It'd help a bit if you added a small resistor - a couple of hundred ohms (ish) should do it - as the 12V line is more like 15V when you've got the alternator running so you need something to drop the excess voltage a bit. Even better, add an individual resistor for each group. To do that, take the forward voltage of your LEDs (usually listed as Vf on the spec sheets) and multiply by the number of LEDs so you have a total forward voltage. Subtract the total Vf from 14.8V (i.e. the worst-case alternator voltage) and that'll be the voltage across whatever resistor you use. Then work out the resistor value to use: V=I x R so R = V / I. Divide the voltage across the resistor by the forward current for your LEDs (usually called If) and you'll get a resistor value. You can do this in Google if you aren't sure how to get the units right, like my example. Adding that value of resistor will make your LEDs a more consistent brightness and they'll last longer because you won't be caning them quite so hard :) Repeat the calculation for each type of LED as they'll obviously all have different forward voltages and operating currents. More current = brighter so you can fiddle with the numbers slightly.

 

I do electronics for my day job so give me a prod if you need any more help. 0603 LEDs are massive by my standards so I'd be happy to solder stuff if anyone needs a hand! :geek:

 

Stone

[KipVR 1]

You can buy el panels made to fit the Corrado heater panels, someone on here will know where from...

[rickdonald 10]

Rick - each led group looks like they are all in series between the two parallel lines of +ve & -ve, or have i misread your notes?

Aright mate, yer each group of 4 or 5 was in series between the +ve and -ve, meaning about 3v or 2v across each. saying that though, they were still very bright, didnt burn out, but were bright, so when doing it again i think i will add another to each track, or even a resistor to dim them down abit.

 

---------- Post added at 03:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:29 PM ----------

 

Don’t know if this is the right place to ask but I’m thinking of selling my 17” Speedlines, but have no idea what type of price to put them up for! I’m tempted to put them on e-bay but can’t really be bothered with time wasters etc. So was wondering if anyone had any sort of idea or comments? The wheels are all in good condition with some slight kerbing on two of them, and also a couple of scratches/scuffs around the centre from tightening wheel bolts (and slipping). Two tyres have loads of tread (1 x Falken and 1 x cheap one), and two (Rainsports) have about 3-4mm on them. The wheels are 5x100, ET48 and Center-bore 58.1, although I have all the right spacers (8mm), spigot rings and wheel bolts to fit them straight to a VR. (pictures on pg.1). Any advice would be great!

 

Cheers

Edited October 20, 2011 by rickdonald

[sexybourbon 0]

Id like to know a price once you have sorted wat you want for them you can pm me if you want as i dont know how much they would go for with or without tyres so wouldnt want to guess

[BILLCOR 1]

You've only recently bought them, so you know what you paid, not to difficult really :shrug:

[VR6 0]

Cost of wheels + cost of tyres x 72.2%.

 

If you accept anything else, you're a mug :grin:

[rickdonald 10]

Cost of wheels + cost of tyres x 72.2%.

 

If you accept anything else, you're a mug

Corrado-less for the first time

 

Cheers for the help guys, they are up for auction now on the classifieds section, although I have put a buy it now price on as well as the auction, but it doesn't seem to be showing it? any-body any ideas?

 

Decided to go back to my old Speedlines, to get a bit of money together to look at getting the timing chains done! But thought I'd give them a quick refurb and coat of paint just to see how it looked.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]49908[/ATTACH]

 

Really happy with how they came out, but not sure how long it will last as I had to do it while the tires where still on and just masking them over. So it may start flaking when the weather gets colder, but I'll worry about that when it happens.

Edited October 31, 2011 by rickdonald

[rickdonald 10]

Just after a bit of advice off those who know better. The cars just passed over 170k, and with no evidence of chains being done I'm now looking at getting a good bit of work done to it before I push my luck too much.

 

I was considering going down the route of chains, tensioners, clutch and a head rebuild as its using a bit of oil (probably 1 litre per 1000miles, with Millers 5w50) and I think its the valve stem seals. I was thinking of booking it into stealth as it seems to be the place to go, but then I'm a little worried as if its getting on for 200k, whats the bottom end going to be like, I dont really want to spend all that money sorting the chains and head out only for the bottom to start causing problems sooner or later.

 

So then second plan was to maybe go down the 2.8 24v route, I have have a good search around on the 24v thread and anything else I can find but cant really find an answer to how much I should really be budgeting for a conversion?

 

I would love to do all the work myself, or even go down the route of buying a second VR engine and rebuilding it myself, but the car is a daily driver, it would take me far to long to do, and havent really got the space.

 

Has anyone got any advice or experience in this?

 

Cheers

[Craig 0]

im in the same predicament and im looking into a 2.8 bottom end on a ported head and just dropping that in. I Cant afford a full rebuild cost, and i was looking at 24v, for the money your going to spend and effort fabricating it to fit it would be silly not to go for the r32 conversion instead imo?

[rickdonald 10]

Really? I think a 3.2 would be a bit steep on the insurance front, concerned slightly about the 2.8 24v tbh. Also I think im looking for reliability and cheap/readiness of spare parts rather than outright power, Especially with it just been FWD.

 

out of interest do you have any idea how much i'd be looking for a 24v conversion as I really dont know? I did find a website from germany

 

http://www.mikmotoren.de/

 

Who do an exchange by the looks of it for around 1500 euro, and that for a near enough fully rebuilt 2.9 VR6, that was another idea, but again for the cost.... i just dont know

[fla 9]

My car has only done about 70k but i'll be buying a 3.2 some time for when it reaches 100k, though at this rate i'll be retiring before i get there! Personally, I would go 24v, but as Haywire suggested, first drive one to see how it drives apparently its 'very' differnt from a normal 12V. If you are looking at originality, you could get a 12v 2.8 bottom end and bore it out to 2.9. Then get a head rebuild, but i guess in terms of monies you'd be looking at the same amount as a 24V. You can pick up good blocks for less than £500 now. Sorry it doesnt help but perhaps food for thought? Some input from the 'convertees' would be better.