To agree or not to agree, that is the question.

[P3rks 11]

Right, long story short my car insurance shot up by a ridiculous amount last year due to a claim. I'm still having issues with a certain insurer over a claim valuation and still haven't had a final pay out almost 2 years later, so as a result I'm very particular about car insurance.

 

So, anyway. I'm currently insured on a classic policy with Footman James. I'm really happy with them and I have a certified agreed valuation of £5,000 but their renewal isn't the cheapest I've had this year so I've said no to their automatic renewal.

 

I've rang around the usual and my two best quotes are:

 

Classic line insurance - £408.75

*Agreed to £6,000

 

Adrian Flux - £395.00

*Not agreed but has a market value with like for like on modifications

 

Now, both policies have similar features in excess amounts and other insurance features, but classic line is an agreed valuation where as Adrian Flux is market value plus like for like on modifications. Now to throw a spanner in the works classic line is a classic policy which doesn't take into account my NCB nor do I gain any, where as Adrian flux does. Also Adrian flux has a feature of driving any other car third party (which is always handy) but Classic line doesn't.

 

I'm unsure how Adrian flux will value the car and it's modifications. At the end of the day insurance is there for the worse case scenario where the car is written off or nicked. I don't want to go through the hassle of arguing the cars value again like I did with my last claim. The last thing I want is my car to be valued at £1,200 in the event of a claim because I'll never get a Corrado as good as mine is for that - This is where a agreed valuation is paramount. But within the next 12 months I need a policy which uses my NCB or I loose them, plus building them up also adds further discounts - I can always wait until next years renewal but who knows what that'll bring.

 

Like I say Adrian flux said market value (which is roughly £1500-£2000 according to the glass guide) plus like for like on modifications. Which I can easily prove £5000-6000 in modification value costs (If my GF finds out I'm dead!). This means the value should be close to the £6,000 agreed classic line offer. But I don't know how Adrian Flux will react in the event of a claim so the values not guaranteed - it's a risk.

 

What would you do?

Edited January 28, 2013 by P3rks

[jonny_ash 0]

Good Luck with that one mate. We all know insurance companies try to get away with paying as little as possible when a claim is made so without an agreed value it's difficult to be sure until it happened and is indeed a big risk to take. Suppose it depends if they depreciate the modifications or take them as being priced as new when paying out like for like. Check the small print carefully!

 

Doesn't really help much but I've been with Adrian Flux for years, had a few non fault claims and have been perfectly happy with them. Mine is not however modded to that extent and all were fairly small payouts.

[P3rks 11]

Good Luck with that one mate. We all know insurance companies try to get away with paying as little as possible when a claim is made so without an agreed value it's difficult to be sure until it happened and is indeed a big risk to take.

 

This is my concern. When my MK2 was stolen and non recovered it was insured with an estimated value of £4,500. I was initially offered £3,000 which I rejected, then they came back with an offer of £1,200 because the first valuation was incorrect (trainee apparently). I've had to spend a hell of a lot of time arguing with them ever since. I do not want to go through that again.

[jonny_ash 0]

Blimey. Never expected the'd pay out quite that low. As i said have never had a car knicked or written off (touch wood) but that kinda makes a mockery of the whole estimated value part of your insurance. I never knew you'd only get back about a quarter of the estimated value! I wonder who comes up with the values for payouts then and where they pluck their figures from then?

[skyinsurance 10]

*Not agreed but has a market value with like for like on modifications

 

 

You need an agreed value policy, like for like modification cover will only go up to the value write off threshold, which if 'book' value isn't going to get you very far at all.

 

We find, the only accurate way to value a car is how much it would sell for, in today's selling market, to a like minded car enthusiast, including any modifications, of course that in itself is a grey area but food for thought.

 

Ollie

Sky Insurance

 

Tel: 03303 331250

[P3rks 11]

You need an agreed value policy, like for like modification cover will only go up to the value write off threshold, which if 'book' value isn't going to get you very far at all.

 

We find, the only accurate way to value a car is how much it would sell for, in today's selling market, to a like minded car enthusiast, including any modifications, of course that in itself is a grey area but food for thought.

 

Ollie

Sky Insurance

 

Tel: 03303 331250

 

Thanks for your input Ollie.

 

I'm a little confused by what you mean with the value write off threshold? Can you clarify that please?

[skyinsurance 10]

Thanks for your input Ollie.

 

No problem, I was a little reluctant to answer as last time we posted up on this forum we were abused, and we were only posting up about a competition!

 

I'm a little confused by what you mean with the value write off threshold? Can you clarify that please?

 

Insurers will usually only repair a vehicle if the cost of the damage is no more than 60% of the vehicles value. The write off threshold is usually 60%.

 

Thanks

 

Ollie

[robo22sri 10]

Just get an agreed price on paper Rich less hassle in the long run

[P3rks 11]

No problem, I was a little reluctant to answer as last time we posted up on this forum we were abused, and we were only posting up about a competition!

 

 

 

Insurers will usually only repair a vehicle if the cost of the damage is no more than 60% of the vehicles value. The write off threshold is usually 60%.

 

Thanks

 

Ollie

 

I wont slate you. I'm really appreciative of the information. Car insurance is just clouded and confusing so any help and information from the people in the know is awesome! Stick at it!

 

So, what happens if the car is stolen or a total write off? Will I still only receive up to (an average of) 60% of the modification value or the full value of what the car is worth? I.e. Will I get the book price of a Corrado plus what ever the value of my modifications are worth at the time or 60% of that??

 

---------- Post added at 6:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 6:10 PM ----------

 

Just get an agreed price on paper Rich less hassle in the long run

 

This is what I'm thinking. It'd be nice to use and gain some NCB and to drive other cars, but i don't want hassle in the case of a total loss claim.

 

If I can get assurance from Adrian Flux that's its market value plus modification value then I'll be happy.

 

The girl on the phone I spoke to said that in the event of a crash the car will be repaired and any modification will also be repaired, like for like - so she said if the stainless exhaust was damaged it'll be replaced like for like or with its nearest equivalent if that's not available.

 

Likewise for the event of a total loss the car will be valued at market value plus the cost of any modification. Which to be fair works out more than £6,000 if that's the case.

 

But obviously what a sales rep says and what happens in the event of a claim can be two very different things in my experience.

Edited January 29, 2013 by P3rks

[skyinsurance 10]

 

So, what happens if the car is stolen or a total write off? Will I still only receive up to (an average of) 60% of the modification value or the full value of what the car is worth? I.e. Will I get the book price of a Corrado plus what ever the value of my modifications are worth at the time or 60% of that??

 

 

It all depends on your insurers really, some are better than others but without an agreed valuation you will receive market value.

 

Like for like modification replacement is specific to modifications, eg if an aftermarket wheel is damaged in an accident, it is replaced on a like for like basis, it does not mean - the car gets stolen and you receive market value + the money you have spent on modifications.

 

An agreed value is the best option but agreed valuations are a huge can of worms for insurers. I've dealt with them personally and they are a head ache to administer, the customer generally (no offence) over-values their vehicle, the issue with this, from an insurers perspective is if the vehicle is over valued, it's likely to be fraudulently claimed on.

 

Ollie

Sky Insurance

 

Tel: 03303 331250

 

---------- Post added at 12:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:40 PM ----------

 

Likewise for the event of a total loss the car will be valued at market value plus the cost of any modification. Which to be fair works out more than £6,000 if that's the case.

 

They will not be able to do this, you'll need an agreed valuation.

 

With regards to money spent on modifications, I own a very highly modified, engine swapped car (Aw11 Mr2 with Ceclia GT4 engine). I've lost count of how much I've spent on the car, buying it, restoring it, maintaining it, and modifying it. I''ve easily spend over £12k. I value the car at £4k, this is the selling value (if I was lucky). That is how to value the car.

[VAG-hag 0]

I am sure that classic line do a policy that does continue NCB, could they offer a different product so you would have the best of both worlds? minus driving other cars that is.

[P3rks 11]

It all depends on your insurers really, some are better than others but without an agreed valuation you will receive market value.

 

Like for like modification replacement is specific to modifications, eg if an aftermarket wheel is damaged in an accident, it is replaced on a like for like basis, it does not mean - the car gets stolen and you receive market value + the money you have spent on modifications.

 

An agreed value is the best option but agreed valuations are a huge can of worms for insurers. I've dealt with them personally and they are a head ache to administer, the customer generally (no offence) over-values their vehicle, the issue with this, from an insurers perspective is if the vehicle is over valued, it's likely to be fraudulently claimed on.

 

Ollie

Sky Insurance

 

Tel: 03303 331250

 

---------- Post added at 12:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:40 PM ----------

 

 

They will not be able to do this, you'll need an agreed valuation.

 

With regards to money spent on modifications, I own a very highly modified, engine swapped car (Aw11 Mr2 with Ceclia GT4 engine). I've lost count of how much I've spent on the car, buying it, restoring it, maintaining it, and modifying it. I''ve easily spend over £12k. I value the car at £4k, this is the selling value (if I was lucky). That is how to value the car.

 

Thanks for confirming that, and I fully understand. It's just frustrating because market value isn't always a true representative value - In my eyes there is a huge difference between cost and value. My cars cost me thousands to to get it in the condition it is now and If my car was stolen or written off and I was given market value of say £3,000, no way could I buy a Corrado in the same my modified spec for that, it's stupid, insurance should leave me in a position to replace my car like for like, regardless of cost. But market value doesn't work like that. It's such a shame. Looks like I need an agreed value or I'll fall short. With my Mk2 which was stolen I was only offered market value because in the insurance companies eyes modifications don't add any value, the £1200 I was offered wouldn't even have bought me a mint Mk2, never mind a mint Mk2 with my mods. .. I just don't want that hassle again.

 

Right.. Anyway, back to business.. Against everyones advice... I think I made a boo boo. I went with Adrian Flux last night on the pretence that it was like for like on modifications (as the sales rep so explicitly stated). My documents have come through today and I can't find anything in the policy documents about modifications and like for like, not a word, there actually isn't anything in the policy wording or terms and conditions about modifications at all. I rang up again to confirm and got the usual unsure response and passed to two different departments. I didn't get a straight answer regarding like for like; even when I pushed. I was passed to someone who handled claims and I was given a very carefully worded response which ultimately ended up with 'market value' which in my eyes could be anything and there was no specific mention to my modifications. Looks like I'll be cancelling the policy.

 

I was very impressed with Sky insurance when I spoke to a chap called Luke on the phone and also Ollie's responses on here. They are more expensive at £550, but for piece of mind that extra £150 is worth it. I'll be giving them another call now to discuss.

 

---------- Post added at 4:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 2:59 PM ----------

 

I am sure that classic line do a policy that does continue NCB, could they offer a different product so you would have the best of both worlds? minus driving other cars that is.

 

Possibly, I'll give them al call. Although I'm really happy with Sky Insurance so far so I'm prepared to pay that little extra. :)

Edited January 30, 2013 by P3rks

[VAG-hag 0]

Sounds good mate

[jonny_ash 0]

Scumbags at Adrian Flux. Sorry for saying I'd never had any problems with them. Sneaky bar stewards! Behaviour like that towards fellow enthusiasts may make me look round a little more thoroughly this year!

[P3rks 11]

Well, I'm not calling them scumbags. I'm just telling how it is and my interpretation of facts. Adrian Flux offer different policies so others may differ.

 

I tried to cancel my policy yesterday and ultimately I was told its a £30 cancelation fee. I told the rep I wasn't happy paying this because I felt I had been mis-sold the policy. They then refered it to a manager who would get back to me the next day. I said I'm happy to give 24 hours to which the rep agreed (3.30pm to 3.30pm which is ample time). Quite frankly experience has shown me what 'we'll call you back' means so I wasn't prepared to give anymore.

 

So yeah, 24 hours later and no phone call from Adrian Flux like they promised.

 

I rang back up and was basically told that the manager the issue was refered to had only just looked into the case and got off the phone with the relevant people involved; literally that instant (how convenient), but the manager was still looking into it and needed more time, but I was assured I would get a call back at the end of the day - I explained, with all due respect I was told 24 hours and that's now up, how can I be assured I'll be called back within the next few hours before the day was over? The short of it - I was told tough; either cancel and pay the fee or wait for a call back at the end if the day.

 

And guess what. No phone call happed. Not happy. Very poor customer service. If its like this now I can only imagine how a claim is handled. Poor show.

 

Btw, this is said without prejudice and I know there are two sides to every story.

Edited January 31, 2013 by P3rks

[P3rks 11]

Update on this:

 

Adrian Flux eventually (after numerous phone calls to them) cancelled my policy and refunded my full deposit. Great. But the way they handled the whole situation was so poor; defensive and calculated in such a way it reminded me of large companies who have obvious procedures set up with the aim to make it difficult to retrieve refunds. Very poor when they portray an image of being part of the enthusiast community - their attitude was so far from their marketing ideals I won't trust them ever again (as my previous post, this is just my interpretation of facts and say this without prejudice).

 

Anyway, the good news; I finally insured my car with Sky Insurance, it wasn't the cheapest but they went above and beyond to please me; not only with Ollie's helpful responses on here but also the chap Luke I dealt with over the phone. The whole experience felt like I was speaking to like minded enthusiasts who really wanted to help; something which has been missing from the marketplace for a long time. Well done guys! I have an agreed valuation, a low excess, I'm using my NCB and I can drive other cars. Everything I wanted at a price I was happy to pay.

[jonny_ash 0]

Result in the end then. Glad you got it sorted! Thinking about Adrian Flux my brother was insured with them a few years ago and cancelled his policy after selling his car. They apparently re-funded him but it never went into his account and he had a long drawn out battle with them to get the money back. Their stance was it has been refunded so thats that! I'd forgotten about that TBH. Like i said originally I've never had a problem and their prices are pretty good normally but then again I've never tried to do anything out of the ordinary with them.

[P3rks 11]

Result in the end then. Glad you got it sorted! Thinking about Adrian Flux my brother was insured with them a few years ago and cancelled his policy after selling his car. They apparently re-funded him but it never went into his account and he had a long drawn out battle with them to get the money back. Their stance was it has been refunded so thats that! I'd forgotten about that TBH. Like i said originally I've never had a problem and their prices are pretty good normally but then again I've never tried to do anything out of the ordinary with them.

 

I just think my issue is that I really check T&C's over with a fine tooth comb, and if it's not what I want or what I was sold I'll go else where. A lot of people don't do that; they just presume what they have been sold is literally what they are getting - but it doesn't work like that. I learned the hard way with car insurance and I won't make the same mistake again.