Turbo my 2.0L 16V?

[Red=Fast 0]

I’m contemplating getting a turbo for my car. What is necessary to do this? I have only dealt with the G60 before so the turbo thing is a dark room for me. How much would a decent kit run me? What sort of horsepower would I be getting? PSI? How many hours of labor are we looking at to install the kit? Where could I get the turbo kit? Which ones work best? etc...

 

Let me know guys, I’m sure turbo stuff isn’t all of your guy’s bags but I’m pretty confident you guys could help me out.

 

cheers,

Josh

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Well as you're in the States, you've got plenty of choice for turbo kits. Try EIP and 8vturbo.com, Bahnbrenner etc....

 

You need to lower the Compression ratio. You can do this by either offset bushing the small-end bearings or using forged pistons. The latter handle more power. Then you need extra fuel filling. I used an additional rail of 4 VR6 injectors on mine controlled by K star and a MAP sensor, but you can also use a standalone management system.

 

The 16V head flows plenty, so just give it a standard rebuild and fit an additional exhaust cam to the inlet but you need to machine the woodruff key further round to restore the correct timing. 2.0 16V standard inlet cams are too mild, the modded cam will give you better torque and power.

 

You'll also need a decent intercooler. Nothing too big or you'll get a pressure drop, but it depends on your turbine size. A Garrett T25 only needs a small IC, but if you go T28, then a larger IC will can be used. Pressure from a T25, up to 1 bar. T28s go up to about 1.5 bar but with a bit of lag.

 

Best to have a look at the kits EIP offer and take it from there.

 

K

[Red=Fast 0]

for lowering the compression most kits come with a different head gasket. im not sure if just that can do it enough without going to forged pistons.

 

the extra fuel filling? right now i have a Bahn brenner fuel rail, would i be using the VR6 injectors on that? i also dont know what a "k star and map sensor" are... i dont plan on going to stand alone.

 

i have newly rebuilt head, with custom cams already installed. is that what you were talking about here: "fit an additional exhaust cam to the inlet but you need to machine the woodruff key further round to restore the correct timing. " or do i just not understand.

 

how big is too big? im not really familiar with anything but the stock g60 set up. also what do you mean by lag?

 

another thing is i would probably have to get another chip made from SNS right?

 

let me know. and the eip kits are QUITE expensive...like $4,900 expensive

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Thicker gaskets, usually 2mm copper is the bodgey way to do it. If you want the engine to last and take the boost, use proper pistons. The reason the kits are expensive is because you generally get everything you need, turbo, pipework, IC, header etc etc. It's just up to you to build the block as appropriate.

 

Be careful with cams, if you use too wild a profile, the boost goes straight out of the exhaust valves before it's had a chance to burn! What profile are they? Stock 16V cams are perfect for forced induction.

 

What I mean by the exhaust in place of the inlet cam is you replace the stock inlet cam with another exhaust one, but you need to remachine the end gear to restore the timing. 2.0 16V inlet cams are much milder than the UK 1800 inlet cam, but the exhaust cams are the same on all 16V engines and have an extra 0.5mm lift over normal 1800 cams, so are perfect for the job.

 

K star was a piggyback module designed for K Jetronic but I'm not sure what American 16Vs got in the way of fuelling. You might be able to chip it? If you've got a fuel rail, that would suggest electronic injection, so yeah, stick some VR6 injectors in it.

 

A chip from SNS would be good, or what ever BahnBrenner/EIP suggest.

 

Lag = time taken for the turbo to spool up. The bigger the turbo, the longer it takes to spin up and start compressing the air. Depends what final whp figure you're after. If you want a good street car with minimal spool up time, use a small turbo. If you want big power and aren't fussed with lag, go with a bigger one!

 

K

[Red=Fast 0]

well, if i were to get a smaller turbo with the copper head gasket do you think it might last if i dont push too much boost?

if not, i guess i would be going to go with the forged low compression pistions.

 

the cams i have in there right now are:

 

seat timing> durration @.050"> durration @.200"> cam lift

266 > 226 > 170 > .441"

272 > 236 > 174 > .441"

 

durration = 266

overlap = 42 deg.

 

would these cams work for that?

 

it just so happens that the car used to be a g60 with the digi 1 fuel managment, so i already had electric fuel management since i just swapped in the 2.0L 16v engine. would i be fine with the G60 injectors?

 

i already talked to SNS and they can make me a chip for the engine with the turbo.

 

i still need to figure out what size of turbo i would want to go with...i was maybe thinking keeping it with low boost, but i dont know...

 

=]

 

josh

[aposegil 0]

First of all your better starting with a 1.8 16v engine as the audi quattor psitons drop straight in and are one of the best istons to have for turbo

 

Secondly there is plenty of companies in america that do exhuas manifold and i would persnally go for a T3/T4 fully hybrid with 360 thrust bearings etc

 

As for the g60 system yes you can run it but i would advise to run a second bank of injectors like most big turbo guys have and run it of a aditinal injector control whcih the likes of HKS Blitz etc make and worth the pennies.

 

If set up correclty you shoudl see about 300-400 bhp all day long and ive seen 16v turbo produce well over 400bhp and still be reliable just alot of $$$$$$ has to go into it

[Kevin Bacon 5]

T3/4 on a 1800 16V? Are you mad? The lag would be ridiculous. And 400bhp? Hmmmm.....righto.

[aposegil 0]

people have done it

 

considering the orignal 16v turbo run a T25 on the exhuast side and that dies about 6000 rpm then a T3 on the exhuast side and having all the work done to it, it tends to start boosting at 3000-3500 rpm and will go until the limiter which ive seen at about 7200-7500 and having T4 inlet side that will creat some crazy boost :D and all in a front wheel drive car :evil: :twisted: :-P :lol: :mrgreen:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

T25s go way past 6000 rpm. It certainly did in my 16V Turbo. It's no KKK03 that dies at 5250rpm!! The beauty of that conversion is the smooth response and almost lag free acceleration :lol:

 

T3/4 are very nice units but on the Valver..... hmmm, I dunno...I prefer my spool up time to be quick as poss! Happy to lose a bit of boost for a more driveable engine.

 

Horses for courses at the end of the day!

 

I'm a large capacity man these days now, preferring the seemless slug of torque but I do miss forced induction...... might have to build another 16V T someday 8)

[psykokid 0]

One of my mates is in the process of building a little monster along the same lines, the only exception instead of using a 9A bottom end, he's using the bottom end of an ABA motor and putting it into a MK2 GLI. He's gonna run a T3/4 with a PL head on top of everything, using digifant ijnection with a chip from SNS. Being our freind and all and how well we know him, we all have bets running on what driveline part is going to go first once he gets it running.. :lol:

 

Sam and Danny @ SNS are very accomodating when it comes to coding up some specialst setups, wether you're using a blower or a turbo..

[aposegil 0]

oh ok maybe its down to the guy that ispoke to might have had a bad turbo which isnt common to hear but he said that after 6000rpm didnt have the pull anymore

 

I did think about doing a 16v turbo as youll produce alot more power than a 20v can, as you can have more lift on the cam but its so much money and if your going to have that much power you might aswell have 4x4 to make it worth ur while, hence why i think that a R32 engine with twin turbo is a great way to go

 

V engine configuration + 6 pot + 4 valves per cylinder and two very big turbo = :twisted: Happy Days lol

[Kevin Bacon 5]

An R32 turbo (AmD are already working on it!) would be lovely, but £££££s !!

 

I agree with you that the 16V turbo is a better engine than the 20V turbo, well, when I say better, I mean more characterful and it feels stronger & smoother. The 20V can produce more power ultimately but it's no valver :lol:

 

The 16V engine is tough as old boots and can take pretty much what you throw at it.

 

I wish VW engineered the VR6 as well as the 16V :cry:

 

K

[aposegil 0]

yeah ur totally right

 

Everyone that knows me knows what i would put my engine through and ive got to say im very happy with the way its been built and they are built to amazing standard and was producing some very nice power :D

 

The only 16v engine that lets it down is the ABA 16v engine found in mkIII range which is taller and weaker

 

KR and 9A 9or 6A known in Audi's) are great blocks :D

[Rossco 0]

First of all your better starting with a 1.8 16v engine as the audi quattor psitons drop straight in and are one of the best istons to have for turbo

 

 

Uh huh couldnt help overhearing here boys, exactly which audi quattro pistons are we tallkin about here?? I need turbo action in my life :lol:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I always thought it was the S2 pistons that went in? But I'm not doubting the UR quattro ones won't go in tho..... never tried it. Not sure which UR ones you'd need. Although they were all 5 cylinder engines, there were variations in crank stroke and bore etc.

[BigTartanJudge 0]

Have looked into this too and AFAIK it's the S2 pistons that fit straight in,

 

Nice,

 

BigEastsideVWG60

[Rado16v 0]

Were'nt the late 20v UR Quatto engines same as the S2?

[BigTartanJudge 0]

Well, in a way I guess, but not quite,

 

they both had the same displacement (2226 cc), and both were longitudinal in-line 5-cylinder 20 V engines, but the engine codes were different and the S2 engine made more BHP and a bit more torque, whilst having the same CR (see below). Early S2 models had the same Motronic MH engine control as the last UR-Quattro's but later models had Motronic LH engine control.

 

Audi S2 (Coupe / Avant)

1991-1994

Engine Type Longitudinal in-line 5-cylinder (I5) Turbocharged DOHC.4 valves per cylinder (20-valve) (engine code 3B [early coupe] or ABY [late])

Powertrain Layout front engine / awd

Displacement, cc 2226

CR : 9.3:1

Horsepower@rpm 230@5900

Torque lb-ft@rpm 258@1950 (380NM on overboost)

 

 

Audi UR Quattro (series 4-final model)

October 1989-1991

Engine code : RR

Engine Type (20-valve) 5-cylinder (I5) Turbocharged DOHC

Powertrain Layout front engine / awd

Displacement : 2226cc

CR : 9.3:1

Horsepower(SAE) : 220 Bhp @ 5900 rpm

Torque(SAE) : 228 ft-lb @ 1950 rpm

 

Cheers,

 

BigEastsideVWG60

[Red=Fast 0]

back on topic...talk to me here... =]

[Kevin Bacon 5]

We are on topic.....like Audi S2 pistons drop straight into a 16V block for instance, i.e giving you the correct compression ratio?

 

The best people to speak to are EIP, BahnBrenner and 8Vturbo.com as already mentioned. They and all the resources you need are in your country.

 

You've got your rail, digifant brain etc, so you just need to pick your turbo size, build the block with the relevant CR reduction method and source the remaining parts.....and off you go :lol:

 

Bit more to it than that, but you should be on the right path by now....

 

K

[rmn 0]

Only prob with using the S2 pistons is that the 1.8L block has to be in perfect condition, ie no wear!

If you are in California i would be paying a visit to Bahn Brenner.

Get some forged pistons (off the shelf there, eip have a 3/4 week lead time, but are $100 cheaper 8) )

Then you build your bottom end, get it fully balanced!

You should get your head flowed too, the 2L head has bigger exhaust valves than the 1.8, so should improve the flow.

Then as for the turbo, get the one that best suits your driving plans! Road, race, drag strip.....

The eip turbo kit is very good, and their inlet manifold is also excellent!

You can get a kit off 8vturbo and it will be as good, but they dont have the inlet (could be corrected???)

You need a BIG intercooler next, as big as you can get!

Finally you will need a new ecu, you cant change those ones in the 16v's to get optimum power.

I have friends who have used both eip and 8vturbo kits.

Both are damn quick cars and have had problems, but do it!, you wont regret it! :lol:

Both cars are drivable and putting out about 230/240 bhp with more left in them! :twisted: