Turbo?

[RACK 0]

Not sure if this has been asked before, but how much work is involved in swapping the Charger on a G60 to a turbo?

I've just seen the Car Phat has put on the for sale bit.

That's one tidy engine bay!

 

What bits would you need, eg manifold and turbo?

It's just out of curiosity at the min, I'm def having a X-Flow conversion, so I know this would help with the space needed near the exhaust manifold.

But am keeping it supercharged for the min (I just love the sound :D )

 

Just thought it would be something to consider next time I feel like something to do?

 

Cheers

RACK

[aposegil 0]

well its pritty easy

 

u need to change the bracket above the water pump to a 8v gti and alternator with the tensioner (loads in scrap yards)

 

as for the turbo side if u want cheap u can get a TDi manifold and turbo to bolt on but other wise there are crap loads of good manifold about that will bolt straight on a nice garrett turbo hybrid :D and a down piep and ur on ur way

 

ull also need a rechip and maybe a APEXI controller for extra fuel if ur going to aim for the 300bhp +

[coullstar 0]

Thats all sounds rather easy.

[aposegil 0]

well u have to rememeber that the G60 engine is already built for boost so doent matter if its chargger or turbo its the same pushed air going in

 

its get more compliacted when u really want to run massive power :D

 

also little things like moving the oil line to the back and extending the oil return and redoing all the boost pipes has to be done but not going to give the biggest headache is it now lol

 

also there is kit forms in america :-

 

http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merch ... Code=VVWTK

 

which with the way things are are the mo its about £1000 so not that bad at all is it

[LowG 0]

Yes it can be done but you have to deal with issues like downpipe cracking/lag ect. Most people in US using atp turbo kits have found out that no all parts bolt on straight due to manifold and downpipe issues. The G60 was build for a supercharger, has a low rev range and the bottom end is heavy. Long term turbo will give you more reliability, also since you are going crossflow its a big plus because you can fit a bigger turbo and not kill the inlet manifold with read hot heat from the turbo. If you like a flat tourqe and hp curve throughout the rev range stay supercharged if you like lag and peak hp go turbo. :)

[RACK 0]

Cheers for the quick replies. A £1000 doesn't seem that much, seen as I paid £1200 for a G-Lader when I found out my other one was dead (It dropped the top bearing and knackered the internal casing, I wondered why it felt slow the first few months I had it?)

 

I'm about to get my charger re-built in the next fortnight hopefully, but I always pre-pare my self just incase I get a call again saying "Sorry to tell you this, but it doesn't look good"

 

If the worse happens I know now that I can just put a turbo in there.

 

But I must admit to being partial to the low end pull of the G60.

I got my mate to put his old Scooby WRX import (260bhp) in 3rd at 20mph and see what happened.

I left him for dead for a bit but then he spooled up :oops:

 

Thanks

RACK

[aposegil 0]

But I must admit to being partial to the low end pull of the G60.

I got my mate to put his old Scooby WRX import (260bhp) in 3rd at 20mph and see what happened.

I left him for dead for a bit but then he spooled up :oops:

 

Yeah but thats becuase of lag same thing will happen to u if u go turbo :(

 

now tell him to do the same thing again with u but this time to floor it and then double clutch it (so turbo spins up) and see what happens :twisted:

[coullstar 0]

Yeah im nota fan of the turbo lag. I am looking after my brothers Impreza and whilst fast the lag is just plain annoying. Give me NA or supercharged anyday. Although a twin turbo my my tempt me.

[PhatVR6 0]

I can sell you a manifold.

 

buy a turbo off any well know turbo manufacturers. a decent T3 hybrid should be about £600.

 

you can keep your intercooler.

 

make up your own boost hoses out of ally tube and silicone bends.

 

oil feed is easy, just get a hose made up, take it from the same part of the head (the ABA cross flow has a hole for it already)

 

you just need a GTD sump with the oil retun in it, or modify your existing one.

 

then get a down pipe pamed up to mate to your exhaust.

 

rising rate FPR is also desirable.

[RACK 0]

Alex, what do you mean double clutch? I've heard the expression before but never understood it?

 

Phat The turbo and manifold would go well with the boost gauge I bought off you a while back :lol:

I've just bought a Golf G60 IC with all the piping so can't wait to get that in.

I've also got a full samco coolant set which I got in the group buy but haven't got round to putting them on. Plus some pipes will be useless due t the X-Flow.

 

It's only an idea at the min, but I just thought it'a another option just incase the worse happens.

Also it sounds pretty easy, and not too expensive. Well conpared to find a G-Lader and getting it re-built and flowed.

[aposegil 0]

ok double clutching (not recomended before everyone shots me down but i do it all the time lol)

 

anyway ur driving along and u want to get to the power of the engine quicker especially on turbo cars

 

So you floor it

 

press on the clutch pedal so the rpm builds up and turbo starts to boost

 

depress the clutch so that the gear can be engaged

 

and he presto a kick up the arse

 

it just helps the turbo spinnign up quicker so you can come into boost :D

 

the other one more tricky is to (if ur going to over take someone) come up behind them use your left foot to control the brake pedal and use you normal right foot to floor it

 

ull find the boost starts to build up and the min u let got of the brakes u fly forwards

 

like i said this is not recomend to do as it will add extra stress to the clutch, pressure plate, engine, engine mounts, exhuast hangers etc

 

but good damm is it good when u can pull it off :twisted:

[RACK 0]

Nice!!! Looks like somethin to practice, before I put the new clutch in :lol:

[aposegil 0]

ok but dont blame me if anythign goes bang :shock:

 

also depending how powerfuly ur car is be preapered for torque steer :( can catch u out and send u flying where ur not meant to :cry:

[RACK 0]

Alex

Now I've really got to try it :lol:

 

Once again thanks for all the replies and advice

[Jim 2]

Thats not quiiiite what double clutching is...

 

http://www.driversedge.com/dblcltch.htm

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I don't think Alex is on about heel and toeing mate, just revving the engine to spin the turbo up. It's basically what WRC cars do. They have a deliberately rich mixture and high idle which keeps the turbine spinning during gear changes etc.

 

Heel-and-toe is mainly for stopping RWD cars locking up the back end when they change down in the wet.

 

Done that many times in my old Bimmers. Bloody things!

 

K

[Guest]

If you like a flat tourqe and hp curve throughout the rev range stay supercharged if you like lag and peak hp go turbo. :)

 

That's not strictly true. One of Audi's requirement specifications for the 1.8T (150bhp) was that it should produce 80% of peak torque by 2000RPM. They achieved this by sizing the turbo to suit the application. The K0-3 used on this engine can actually flow enough on the compressor side to support an output of ~240bhp according to Borg-Warner, the manufacturers. I'll leave you to work out why it doesn't achieve this with a remap (hint :it's not the fuelling, although this would have to be addressed in order to make that output).

 

A correctly sized and implemented turbo will out-perform a G-Lader in every respect (reliability, performance & efficiency) but the trick is in sizing it correctly.

 

Start with a peak horsepower goal. Determine the airflow required to meet that goal, determine the air consumption of your engine in N/A form then calculate how much boost your engine will require to meet your target.

 

Remember that it's better to have high-flow, low boost than low flow, high boost.

[LowG 0]

But we are talking different engines here, differnt number of valves ect... Id like to see a turbo spool up at 2000 rpm and produce big power up top. How long will that little KO3 snail last to make 240 hp :lol: We dont want to start a war supercharger vs turbo now :lol:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Indeed, Lancia couldn't do it, hence using a Supercharger and a turbo on the S4. But then that was in the 80s and things have moved on somewhat since then. Mind you, the Supra turbo (current shape) has to use a small turbo and a big one in combination to produce the desire results.

 

But what Blue Nothelle is saying still holds true.

[PhatVR6 0]

put it this way, even with a crap map, my mates cross flow turbo will out perfom any g60 I've ever seen or been in, including a 240BHP one.......

 

sure its a bit laggy, but when that boost hits you, the torque is imense and just pins you too the seat.

[Guest]

But we are talking different engines here, differnt number of valves ect...

It's the same 1781cc (apart from the Rallye 1763cc), what's really changing is the V.E. as a consequence of the cylinder head and intake design. The point I was making was to dispel the myth that superchargers give low down torque and turbos are laggy or peaky. It's perfectly possible to build a turbo engine that betters a supercharger for low-rev torque and response, as I've indicated. It's just a matter of correct sizing. It's also possible to get a smooth, linear response from a turbo engine so that it feels just like a large capacity N/A engine but again, it takes a correctly sized turbo for the job, a decent wastegate with good control strategy and lots of time on the dyno for a spot-on map.

 

Id like to see a turbo spool up at 2000 rpm and produce big power up top.

Take a look at hybrid designs, it's their very purpose. Small turbine for fast spool, large compressor for flow rate. Ultimately though for monstrous peak horsepower, it is better to run a bigger turbo well within it's capabilities and perhaps sacrifice some spool time than push a small turbo off the island.

 

How long will that little KO3 snail last to make 240 hp :lol: :

 

It's a manufacturers specification so I'd expect it to last as long as their lifetime indicator. Remember, there's a difference between flowing enough to make 240bhp at 7psi and making 240bhp at 25psi.

[LowG 0]

Yes of course the valve train and head design is completley different, 20v breathe much better,higher cfm flow,better quench area design and heat dispersion, put the same turbo size on a 20v and 8v g60 and guess who will spool up faster.

 

Exactly, sacrifice some spool time, this takes the 8v g60 into high 3k revs or maybe 4k to spool up its turbo and you will have a few more revs left.

 

The manufactures give you the warranty under terms and conditions, when you go and spin the crap out of the turbo surley wont last as long.

 

I don't hate turbos :lol: i just think that for a stock g60 a turbo isnt the best option, the head design will limit you from fitting a decent sized turbo, plus it will heatsoak even worse with a turbo glowing red underneath the inlet. But as others have pointed out the benefits are the alternatives cheaper ways to go turbo like using a td manifold and other junkyard setups.

I suggest you should drive a g60 turbo first before you decide to go other way.

Whats the fun driving a G60 without a G60 :lol:

[Guest]

Forgot about this discussion.

 

Yes of course the valve train and head design is completley different, 20v breathe much better,higher cfm flow,better quench area design and heat dispersion, put the same turbo size on a 20v and 8v g60 and guess who will spool up faster.

 

Don't quite follow you here - you wouldn't use the same turbo on each engine but you could get the same result (within reason) by sizing the turbo correctly for each. Incidentally, heat dispersion is one of the bugbears of the 5V / cylinder head design. The head metal temps suffer as there's little room left for waterways with all that valve gear crammed into the head. It's why they tend to burn exhaust valves relatively quickly compared to other designs.

 

Exactly, sacrifice some spool time, this takes the 8v g60 into high 3k revs or maybe 4k to spool up its turbo and you will have a few more revs left.

 

To be fair, I did say monstrous peak horsepower. i.e. 350bhp+ Trying to get that out of 1781cc with a 2V/cylinder, parallel valve, counter-flow head is a fool's errand in itself. Increased spool time is the least of your worries!

 

The manufactures give you the warranty under terms and conditions, when you go and spin the crap out of the turbo surley wont last as long.

 

Like I said, it can flow enough air for 240bhp without exceeding the manufacturers maximum boost & turbine speed specifications but you've got to alter the V.E. With the 1.8T, there's only really one way to do it...

 

I don't hate turbos :lol: i just think that for a stock g60 a turbo isnt the best option, the head design will limit you from fitting a decent sized turbo.

 

We definitely agree here. The G60 is almost a study in how not to design a forced induction engine. It's as if VW deliberately set out to strangle its potential with the worst flowing cylinder head they could find. They needed an answer to the competition, in particular Vauxhall's 2.0 16V, while the VR6 was still in development and one which wouldn't outdo the 6-pot flagship. No, the best way to improve the G60 is to ditch that head and go crossflow or ultimately 16V.

 

I suggest you should drive a g60 turbo first before you decide to go other way.

 

Not for me thanks, already have a 1.8T and a VR6. ;)

[bcstudent 0]

You know what? This is the most enjoyable thread I've read to date.

 

For the record I'm with Blue on this. I regularly drive a 53-reg Leon Cupra and have to say that the combination of a well-chosen turbo and a high-flow cyliner head has resulted in the most pleasing power delivery I can imagine. These engines are fantastic....power everywhere. My only criticism is the choice of a 6-speed 'box for the 180bhp version. Why fit a close ration gearbox to an engine this flexible? I just don't get it....must be a marketing thing.

 

Amongst all that drivel I'm just trying to say that If that sort of power delivery is achievable by turbocharging a G60 then I'm officially looking for one with a blown 'charger!

 

That's my 2p at the risk of taking things slightly :offtopic1: for a second.

 

*cough* Turbo *cough*

[Trilidon 0]

Whatever you do, make sure to wrap up your wiring and such in some good heat resistant wrap!

 

Turbos get hot ;P Oil cooler would probably do ya well to.

 

Solid front motor mount would be nice to on a G60, its a tight fit back there, could beat back the firewall thing as well

 

Get a pretty flexible downpipe.

 

You could probably make up your own kit for around $1500-$1700

 

I'm partial to smaller turbos , hitting spool early on is just so fun and you usually keep a good amount of torque across the rev range. Ko4 perhaps?