To 4wd or Not to 4wd

[Henny 0]

with ya there storm classic, Anyone who's considering doing (or better still, done!) a 4x4 conversion gets a huge amount of admiration from me as I can see just how much work and commitment there is in getting it right... 8)

[CoxyLaad 0]

Well I will do it if I know that the results are worth it.

 

I heard this story from an unofficial source the other day:

 

Are we sitting comfortably?

 

Audi were testing one of their saloons in artic conditions up in Sweden or somewhere for bad weather handling, and the cars were handling like cars do in the snow, crap.

 

They were using big VW 4wd vehicles as support vehicles (apparantly these were called the VW 'Itis' made by VW for military purposes)

 

The Audi engineers were impressed with the handling of these big 4wd's despite them being as slow as shyte.

 

A group of engineers 'unofficially' took it upon themselves to graft this 4wd system into one of there saloons with what they thought were impressive results. After some more secret testing they approached their managers with the project.

 

they setup a test to prove the system, the 4wd car endowed with a 160bhp engine, vs the current top spec touring car with 240bhp on a track.

 

By all accounts the 4wd car with less horse power lapped quicker than the fwd 240bhp car.

 

The managers were suitably impressed and that folks is alledgedly how the Quattro came to be.

[jono 0]

IMO VW dont build a good enough 4 wheel drive system to use on your car. :? The syncro and Haldex systems are about as far removed from performance as you can get.The syncro is agricultural and the Haldex is useless without its computer to control it and even then its not that great.

The Audi system is far superior but can not be adapted to fit the transverse engine configuration.

To launch the car in a straight line then any 4 wheel drive will do a better job than front wheel drive but when it comes to handling and power distribution you need front and rear LSD and a centre slipper to really get the best.

I agree with the fact that a well setup front end with correct castor/camber/toe and diff settings can be awesome and dependant on power its would be the best way to go IMO. Dont be misled into thinking that because you have 4 wheel drive your cornering speeds will be greater though as it is mechanical grip from your tyres that keeps you on the road and not how many driven wheels, they only help when you start to lose grip.

Best stick the engine in the back and rear wheel drive it. :twisted:

[Joe M 0]

Ive never drove a 4wd car, but I know you wont be dissapointed with a Quaife diff. Id get that first and see how you get on.

[CoxyLaad 0]

I will probablies get a diff and try that first before I do the 4wd.

My car is already fully poly bushed front to back with eibach anti roll bars, so its about as good as it gets

[CoxyLaad 0]

p.s. vw syncros still do that stupid three wheel thing?

[GazzaG60 0]

i aint trying to put you down but if this was a yank forum without a slip and a good graph they would call bullshit

 

13.6 seems optomistic when sds turbo g60s and lysholm mega ported cammed abas on slicks only pull the same in the dry. if PVW dont provide a proper slip then id be off to york or pod for a slip.

 

you must be able to drive it though mate to get anywhere near that.

 

proof is proof for the septic sceptics like me :)

 

congrats. it obviously goes very well. job well done.

[Henny 0]

GazzaG60, 8) That's the figure that Elliot told me on the day... I've yet to see it in writing myself and rest assured that she'll be doing Pod and York next season again 'cos I had sooooo much fun last time! 8)

 

Also aiming to do more track and sprint sessions as well... that's why I built her afterall! 8) :lol:

[GazzaG60 0]

to get that you is driving well. G60 chargers are known not to be good at the quartermile. esp in the wet.

 

id like to see the difference between yours n mine next time we meet up. i have a faily mild tune but am thinking sell or build a engine. if i build i aint sticking with the lader but im more interested in the mega traction. the talk here on the LSD n 4wd has got me thinking do i need a 4wd car or not. weather does get shitty round here though.

 

for those that have seen mo reeves go round a track in the black golf then thats gotta be proof that 4wd isn't needed.

 

theres a site, search for jackal forge and he straps a camera to his cateram type thingy and does track days he's raced the golf a few times n cannae catch it.

 

let me know when you plan on a york venture n ill convoy with you. tis a good day out. id like to see you smoke a few cossies with that.

 

sorry to be off topic

[ruffy 0]

[

Also aiming to do more track and sprint sessions as well... that's why I built her afterall! 8) :lol:

 

nice .. just want i'm waiting for corrado track day .. i think some on should arrange one ..

[Henny 0]

[

Also aiming to do more track and sprint sessions as well... that's why I built her afterall! 8) :lol:

 

nice .. just want i'm waiting for corrado track day .. i think some on should arrange one ..

 

it's being looked into... ;) 8)

[CoxyLaad 0]

would you run VR or the 1.8T then ruffy?

[ruffy 0]

would you run VR or the 1.8T then ruffy?

 

My 1.8ts more suited to track use cause of the suspension and brakes and bits its a track/road car really..

[gibber 0]

A 7 second 0-60 and a 13.6 second 1/4 mile in the wet|

 

Thats not what it says in the mag, it says [email protected] .Thats slower than a standard VR, but granted it was wet.

[Henny 0]

I've not yet seen the mag article... as I said up there ^ somewhere, that's what Elliot told me on the day, so I'm quite prepared for that to be corrected... 8)

[PhatVR6 0]

henny, there's no way on this earth you ran a 13.6 in a g60 in the wet, rgardless of spec.

[Jim 2]

Yeah I think we established there was some confusion over the figures there.. dunno where the mix up came though. The 13 number must have been mentioned at some point as there wouldn't exactly be much point in going around boasting about numbers which you knew full well your car could not live up to?

 

Its a bit of a mystery.

[PhatVR6 0]

just 4wd it.

 

you won't notice the weigh, believe me, my jetta syncro went very well, desite only having an 1800 80v and a weber carb.

 

the difference in the handling that the independant rear suspension offers is amazing. the turn in is fantastic. and being able to floor it inthe wet and still have traction is just mind boggling.

 

stick to your original plan and go ahead with it.

 

by all means do the diff as well, but certainly not instead or the 4wd.

 

I'm still going ahead with the 4wd in mine.

[G60JAY 0]

In my opinion it`s well worth it. Been running 4wd for ages now and it comes into its own in the wet.

[CoxyLaad 0]

Cool, a man who has actually done it!!!

 

So is there any other benfit apart from in the wet? Do you still get understeer through a corner?

 

can you feel the weight?

[G60JAY 0]

It just drives much better i find and makes better use of a uprated engine.

No point really having it unless the engine is around 250hp or more as it adds weight and drive train losses.

It does naturally understeer but changing the suspension settings can alter this. I`ve got the back end out a few times on roundabouts etc.

In your case i would go for it. At least that way you can put down the power the vr will make in all weather conditions.

I`m doing a vr6 4 motion at some stage myself when i get around to.

Got all the stuff, but in the wrong country.

[CoxyLaad 0]

Well the descision has been made for me now anyway - I cant get the front half of the prop off without having to remove the engine, so I am going straight to 4wd. Wish me luck!

 

G60JAY, are you running a rallye back axle and viscous coupling then? Did you fit a syncro boot floor ?

 

Ta

[G60JAY 0]

Yeah, i`m running a rallye rear axle etc in a standard floor pan at the mo but i should be fitting the rallye rear floor pan soon as i need it for australian road regulations. It all works fine but they probably won`t like the fuel tank in the boot.

What way are you going about it ?

[CoxyLaad 0]

pretty much the same as you in design, only I plan to sling some custom fuel tanks either side undernieth the seats as there is plenty of space there.

I am using the haldex diff bolted into a syncro rear axle.

 

I was going to say where abouts do you live and I wouldnt mind a look at yours, but I see you are a err few miles away from my village :wink:

[G60JAY 0]

Your welcome to come and have a look :D .

Have you any pics of your set up in the car.