V6 24v - Charger Cooler or intercooler???

[CoxyLaad 0]

I have a dilemma,

I am fitting my vortech supercharger to my v6 motor, and I am debating with myself which will be the best way to route the boost piping.

 

Obviously the charger sit on the left of the engine, where all the belts are, but I have 2 ideas in my head for the piping.

 

1. Run the piping down and across the front of the engine incorporating a smallish intercooler then back upthe otherside and into the manifold (remember the throttle body is on the other side to the VR)

 

2. run the boost pipe exactly like a charged VR only run the pipe work straight across the back of the engine, over the other side, then into a charge cooler (with a 180 degree turn in it) and into the throttle body

 

What you do you think? I actually like option 2, cos a I have a big space on the right where a charge cooler can go, and b the pipework routing for option 1 will be very tight cos I have the 4 motion radiator and aircon rad up front too.

The only thing I dont like about option 2 is that the air will be making a sharp 180 degree turn, unless I can get a cleverly designed charge cooler to do this.

 

Any ideas or opinions would be great.

[corradovr6sc 0]

The vf-eng vortech kits use method 1 on late 12v and 24v engines. There are some pics of their front mounted intercooler on vwvortex but as you say, space might be limited on a corrado.

 

How much boost will you be running? Is water injection an option?

 

Chargecooling might be an option as it takes up less space, maybe something like this:

[CoxyLaad 0]

I wont be running a massive amount of boost, I have a Vortech V1 am running the standard engine with no modifications (bar a remap)

That charge cooler looks pretty trick, Ideally if I was going to get a charge cooler I would want one that has the entry and exit pointing out the same side, that way it will be a lot easier to pipe.

[CoxyLaad 0]

p.s. what boost does the standard VR vortech system run at?

[corradovr6sc 0]

I'm not sure but I'm going to be running 8-9 psi with 310 cc injectors which was the same as the AMS vortech kits using v1 and v2 blowers on 12v cars. The vf-eng kit stage 1 which uses the smaller v9 unit runs at 6 psi but running an intercooler at low boost may actually reduce power.

[CoxyLaad 0]

are you running a 12v vr or a 24v then?

[corradovr6sc 0]

12v but the 24v s/c probably runs a similar spec

[CoxyLaad 0]

how much are those charge coolers then?

and where do you get them from?

[corradovr6sc 0]

Somewhere like here:

 

http://www.absoluteradiator.com/Intercoolers.asp

[Henny 0]

Me? I'd go with option 3. ;)

 

3) small inline chargecooler (as above) in the straight pipe from the charger to the throttle...

 

As short an airway as possible with a high efficiency charge cooler in the path to try and get the temps down while keeping the flow to as high a capacity as possible... 8)

 

Think about it, if the charger is pushing it's charge into a long pipework run with at least one 180 degree turn in it, (which ever way you do it, there's a 180 in there somewhere, be it tight or through the cooler) your flow rate is gonna drop and cause more lag and less efficiency than a small straight pipe with a slightly smaller/less efficient cooler in it... ;)

[CoxyLaad 0]

yeah but I am going to have to have a 180 somewhere as the charger can only be mounted on the left hand side of the engine, and the throttle body is on the other side!

 

Ouch those charge coolers arent exactly cheap are they?

[G60JAY 0]

I`d go with the Intercooler myself.Cheaper,lighter and work better if plumbed and located properly.

[PhatVR6 0]

do this

 

 

but obviously take the pipe further back, around the manifold, put the charge cooler in the battery spot and turn it 90 degrees., with both pipes pointing to the back of the engine bay. so your pipe from the charger goes in roughly where the PS bottle should be, then comes out of the CC near the engine and go striaght into the throttle body.

 

where is your air flow meter going?

[PhatVR6 0]

forgot to add.

 

use the mk4 expansions tank and the pipes (which I have if you've binned then) to get it on the left turret out of the way, plenty of room for th boost hose then (if it'll fit on the left with the charger on?)

[CoxyLaad 0]

I dont think I will have a problem with the expansion tank where it is.

 

But I like that setup, thats what I am after.

 

I will be fitting my airflowmeter after the charge cooler.....actually I am not so sure, I will have to have a think about it. If it were before the charger then it would probablies be the best reading, but on overrun if I have a dump or boost recirculation valve then it will read odd....dunno, never really thought about it - I suppose I will just put in the same position as the standard 24v charged motors. :D

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I'd go with an intercooler with Subaru / Evo water spray jets and also water/methanol injection. Perhaps behind the number plate and relocate that, err, somewhere else! You can then get away with a compact IC that won't sap boost pressure and use the water spray and injection with a MAP sensor to really drive down those temps.

 

I've seen some chargecoolers struggle to maintain a 50 degree charge temp, I don't like them. Intercoolers are easier and more effective.

 

But it's your choice at the end of, and what you can fit in the engine bay. Either way, a charged 24V is going to be special :lol:

[CoxyLaad 0]

I'd go with an intercooler with Subaru / Evo water spray jets and also water/methanol injection. Perhaps behind the number plate and relocate that, err, somewhere else

 

Any idea where?!?

Can I do away with a front number plate altogether?

I wanted to keep the car standard looking - the relocated number plate would certainly give the game away

Although I agree its probablies the best option. Need to have a think......hey can you get number plates made of Mesh?! :D

[Kevin Bacon 5]

One option is to cut out the bumper where the number plate sits, fit some proper black plastic honeycomb mesh (instead of Chav chicken wire) and sit the IC behind that. John at Stealth has done exactly that on his 1.8T Corrado and it looks superb. He's got the plate on the dash at the moment, so I'm not too sure where he's going to put that! Or perhaps a slimline IC in front of the radiator. I've got an oil cooler in front of my rad, so it's possible.

 

The Scoobie water spray is easy....it comes on depending on vehicle speed and water temp figures. It keeps the IC cool when sitting in traffic or when moving in low speed congestion so that you don't get heat soak induced hesitance and flat performance when blasting away after the traffic clears.

 

Water / methanol injection is obviously easy too and can be had from Aquamist. Used to have it on my 16v Turbo and after an hour's hard thraping, the inlet manifold felt refrigerated and it liberated 20 hp and allowed for far greater ignition adavance than would normally be possible.

 

Chargecoolers are not easy to get right.....stick an IC in the airpath and you're onto a winner.

[CoxyLaad 0]

major problem though - I have a mk4 golf 4 motion rad complete with aircon rad in front of that, its enormous - effectively ruling out a front mounted effort unless I want to be a total ding and stick it infront of the bumper..... :?

 

I like the idea of the intercooler in the number plate position, but I am not sure what the hell to do with the plate?

Ideally it would be best binned, but I dont think thats an option.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yeah the plate thing is tricky.....looks a bit pants on the front spoiler, or anywhere else other than where it's supposed to be really.....but it's a good source of airflow. How about some kind of Evo / Alfa 156 style offset plate? Or for a laugh, a Mini Rally style sticker on the bonnet!!

 

There is always the option of an S3 / TT type twin intercooler setup - one in each inner wing. Or maybe cut a hole under in the bumper under the plate and mesh that over?

[CoxyLaad 0]

It depends on how small an intercooler I can get, I have a *little* space on teh left hand side as the radiator sits at an angle, but not much, but even then I couldnt get the boost piping round the front.

 

Its most important to me for it to look right, and inconspicuous.