Tracking - adjusting toe?

[joebloggsVR69 0]

I took the car to get the tracking checked out, as it's been about 5 weeks since I've had my suspension fitted.

 

The camber was fine, but the tester said the toe was "way out" on the front wheels.

He tried to sort out the toe, but couldnt do it. He told me the tracking rod bolts were seized or something

What tracking rods is he on about? The tracking arm?

 

Which bolts in the diagram are adjusted to sort the toe?

More importantly, how do I sort out the seized bolt? Penetrating grease or something?

[Furkz 0]

one one of the sides the bolt turns the other way to loosen as does the drivers door handle screw!!!! i found this out getting mine done when the lil chav knob soent half hour trying to do it and than his boss came out saying "ohh its a corrado, i kno what to do" in a gay voice and sorted it

 

maybe urs is the same issue

[joebloggsVR69 0]

one one of the sides the bolt turns the other way to loosen as does the drivers door handle screw!!!!

 

Ah... maybe thats it

[RW1 0]

Which bolts in the diagram are adjusted to sort the toe?

More importantly, how do I sort out the seized bolt? Penetrating grease or something?

 

Bit not numbered sitting above item 8. You can see the lock nut on the shaft. You may need to use a carefully aimed blow torch to heat it up to loosen it. Penetrating oil doesn't always work.

 

The C has adjustments on both track rods but only the off side one should be used to adjust tracking. The nearside one is for factory engine settings as one common track rod is used on various models (cost reduction in production etc.)

 

Some 4 wheel laser tracking systems it's possible to adjust the nearside but the nearside adjustment was not fitted with that in mind. VR6 is fickle if not set up correctly and can soon wear tyres. Aim for straight ahead ie. 0 to 1 minute toe out not the +/- 10 allowable as specified by VW.

[Chris VR6nos 0]

I have never heard of that explanation for using just one side, what if you replaced the track rod and the track end on both sides as i need to do?

 

I adjusted my caster, camber and toe settings on a 4 wheel laser kit last week but couldn't do it spot on 'cos the locking nut was siesed onto the track rod and other problems but they do wear tyres bad of not done right as there's so much weight over the front wheels

 

 

 

Chris

[RW1 0]

I have never heard of that explanation for using just one side, what if you replaced the track rod and the track end on both sides as i need to do?

 

 

It has a preset fixed length measured off the car before fitting.

 

adjusted my caster, camber and toe settings on a 4 wheel laser kit

Thats' fine which is why I mentioned it but if older tracking equipment is used it can lead to "crabbing".

[joebloggsVR69 0]

Thanks for all the help :)

 

Just out of interest, does the nut unscrew the 'wrong' way, as Furki suggests?

The tracking on my car was done 5 weeks ago, so I'm sure they adjusted the toe then. Seems unlikely that the nut would seize up in 5 weeks!

[Skimask 0]

Joe, Wire brush the threads behind the locknut, you'll be able to see which way loosens it. You're going to have to clean the threads up before trying to loosen them anyway. If the garage is any good, they'll make sure the steering wheel is in the straight ahead position first, and then adjust (both sides if necessary. I've never come across adjustment on one side only, but you never know!!

[joebloggsVR69 0]

Wire brush the threads behind the locknut, you'll be able to see which way loosens it

Good idea, I'll try that cheers :)

[RW1 0]

I've never come across adjustment on one side only, but you never know!!

 

Here for info is the VW Bulletin Supplement extract issued for the european workshop manual on suspension and steering. The first note clearly states. Note also how the tyre width has an impact on the prescribed length.

 

The measurement can't be done on the car as the inner gaitor gets in the way, only a rough idea of the length is possible.

 

I seem to remember the Bentley has a section similar but excludes the Corrado 16v as it wasn't sold in the USA.

 

As above, if the left hand adjustment is done as a FULL all points alignment, I can't see a problem if it is adjusted slightly but using a simple tracking device on the front only, the nearside track rod shouldn't be adjusted. A lot of VW's were built with only an off-side adjusting trackrod, the nearside being non-adjustable.

[joebloggsVR69 0]

*bump*

 

Ordered 2 new track rod ends from VW, along with nuts. The track rod ends are totally seized on the car at the moment, so I'm taking it to a garage to get the new ones fitted.

 

Anything else worth changing in that area at the same time? I dont want the garage to ring me up saying that they also need 'x' part. :?:

 

Cheers :D

[VW_OwneR_85 1]

guys the vr6 l/h track rod dimension {a} 406.0 _+ 1MM what does that plus minus symbol mean? give or take 1mm? cheers..

[Jim Bowen 1]

Yeah think it like allowed tolerance.

[davidwort 0]

That figure plus one mm or minus one mm is ok :)

[VW_OwneR_85 1]

cheers all sorted ;)

had to slide the trackrod boot off the steering rack in order to take the measurment but worth it for piece of mind :)

[davidwort 0]

cheers all sorted ;)

had to slide the trackrod boot off the steering rack in order to take the measurment but worth it for piece of mind :)

I've still no idea why this is important, no one has explained it to me and I've never done it 'properly' myself

[sexybourbon 0]

This is interesting ill be havjng a for wheel alignment done soon and some of this info will come in vwry handy and probable save me some tome aswell

[VW_OwneR_85 1]

I've still no idea why this is important, no one has explained it to me and I've never done it 'properly' myself

 

 

the reason i checked was because iv never gotten wheel alignment and my steering wheel had to be held at 11 oclock to go in a straight line,

so i thought ahh lets have ago at getting it better as worse case is ill just get it booked in, i put my steering wheel in the straight position and got the biggest piece of 2x4i could find which was about 8ft, i put that up against the drivers side wheel {my wheels stick out past the arch's }and lined it up with the body and to be fair it looked prety much sqaure , i then took that to the passenger side wheel and clearly noticed this wheel to be toed in so much that its obviously the reason why my car wants to turn right! , i adjusted this to what i thought was how it should be , and double checked the measurement from here and it was only out by like 3mm , where as before it was out by roughly 1/2" on the threads!! havnet had a chance to drive it yet but im sure its for the better,

 

but to answer your question of why its important to do this , it just helps to centralise the steering, just imagine if the previous owner of my car had removed the steering wheel on a few splines to keep the steering wheel straight and then i get that booked in for an alignment they wouldnt know and they would of adjusted the rod ends as per normal, so your steering rack would be adjusted more to turn one way then the other, for me it was just confirming that i had done the right thing, 1/2" on the threads is alot! im guessing my l/H track rod was replaced at somepoint

Edited March 8, 2013 by VW_OwneR_85

[Overmind 10]

This is something I've been trying to get my head around recently. In my experience, if you centralise the steering rack you should have equal travel left and right and an equal distance between the inner ball joint and outer rod end on both sides of the rack (which doesn't mean your toe is correct but it means the steering rack is central to the car.) Now if you we're only to adjust one side. (For instance the vehicle was toeing out a total of 1mm and you adjusted the RH track rod by 2 turns longer) then the distance between the RH ball joint and rod end is now greater than the left and the steering wheel would now sit slightly off to the right meaning you had to take the steering wheel off and move it round on the splines which means you now have more lock on the left hand side than the right and the rack is no longer central when in the straight ahead position. So the only way to maintain a central rack and equal steering locks is to adjust from both sides.

 

Can someone confirm my theory?

 

Thats' fine which is why I mentioned it but if older tracking equipment is used it can lead to "crabbing".

No matter how far out the front wheel alignment is it won't cause crabbing bud. The thrust line of the vehicle is denoted by the rear wheel alignment which is usually not adjusted on these cars.

[davidwort 0]

Yep, I'm still leaning towards the 'it doesn't matter' camp, the two corrados I have (4 cyl cars) have only ever been set up on basic alignment kit and I've set the camber and they drive spot on, we usually clamp the steering wheel and adjust both sides, never measuring rod lengths, even when changing them. If needed I remove the steering wheel and turn it a spline though.

I'm not in the habit of holding my cars on full lock but I've not encountered any wheel rubbing or anything, they drive great, corner great, centre fine, tyre wear is always very even and in over 150k on the two cars I've never had any other issues that could be related to setting them up like this.

[DriverVR6 11]

Ref tracking and the length of the l/h track rod end, this seems to come up a lot here......as I've said before on several other threads, it makes absolutely no difference and does not need to be measured at all.

 

This is the reason for it......

 

When the car is being assembled at the factory, to save time on the tracking many car manufacturers use a fixed track rod end on one side, ie, one that cannot be adjusted. The tracking is then done by locking the front fixed wheel with the rear wheel using an appropriate jig, and the tracking is then corrected by adjusting the adjustable track rod end only.

 

Now, when a car is brand new everything is smack on tolerance and the above method can be used. However, with natural wear and tear later in a cars life you will eventually replace the none adjustable track rod end with an adjustable one. This is exactly what you do on the Golf mk2 Gti which starts it's life with a fixed track rod end on one side.

 

To centralise the steering wheel and rack you just make sure that lock to lock is the same left to right. And you also make sure that the track rod ends are adjusted about the same on both sides.

 

I have tracked many VW's (and other makes) and I have never had an issue and I have never measured the fixed arm. The steering is always straight and the car tracks straight and true.

[VW_OwneR_85 1]

thanks for clearing that up guys

[davidwort 0]

That makes a lot of sense, thank you :)

based on that I might set mine up for more lock turning right for mini roundabouts :lol:

[VW_OwneR_85 1]

based on that I might set mine up for more lock turning right for mini roundabouts :lol:

 

LOL thats how mine was setup!! ,

 

seriously though could that cause that side CV joint to make a cracking sound when on full lock? as it would be extended out further then it should , my cars allways had a mystery cracking noise just a straight forward loudish "crack" no little follow up noises or anything, only happens when i 3point turn reverse out of somewhere on full lock, turn lock to lock whilest staitonary and its silky smooth with no noises,

[davidwort 0]

from what I've been told (and looking at CV wear) when you do a reverse/3 point turn, you put the joint bearings under forces from a different angle to what they get in normal driving conditions, particularly when cold and with old CV grease, the balls get pushed slightly out of the normal position in their races and 'jump' back into place, it's only a small amount of movement but enough to get a audible crack. Unless the CV joint is very worn I found cleaning and repacking with new CV grease pretty much cured it.