Cooling fan after run strangeness...

[DelMonty 0]

I think there is something not right with the general secondary cooling system on my VR.

 

When the ignition is turned on, the auxilary pump runs, which I recently found does not happen on Dinkus's VR.

 

When the ignition is turned off (engine cold), the fan controller relay in the engine bay clicks rhythmically for around a minute, and with each click, a brief pulse of power is sent to the cooling fans and aux water pump, which turn very slightly each time.

 

If the ignition is turned off when the engine is hot, the fans come on and the pump runs until the temp has been brought down as usual.

 

I've replaced the relay/ cooling controller unit at £98 to find it's doing the exact same clicking thing :( Some people have said it sounds like there's a bomb under the bonnet! :)

 

Does anyone have any ideas?

 

A suspision I have is 'relay 14', which is located on an additional realy panel which sits above the fuse box and relay panel down by the bonnet release lever, but I cannot find this panel, even though both ETKA and the Bently manual state the presence of this panel....

 

Any help greatly appreciated.

[Ice White Socks 0]

Doesn't answer your main question but the Aux fuel pump always runs with the ignition on... Maybe Dinkus's is just super quiet (or maybe its not working at all?)

 

Cheers

[DelMonty 0]

Maybe Dinkus's is just super quiet (or maybe its not working at all?)

 

I had my hand on his aux pump whilst he turned the igintion on - I could not feel a thing. I recently replaced mine and although it's now very quiet, movement can still be felt when it's touched at the ignition is on.

 

Sorry Dinkus, looks like there could be a problem with your aux pump.

 

Ahh, you said Aux fuel pump, I'm talking about the aux water pump.

[andy 0]

He means aux water pump, its defo supposed to be on all the time the ignition is on, as you say you can feel them running.

[Ice White Socks 0]

Ah- sorry my typo error- I meant aux water pump too (doh!)

 

The aux water pump (located under and to the side of the top plastic engine covers) deffo runs with ignition on.

 

Sorry for confusing :oops:

[dinkus 10]

Oh goody :(

[dr_mat 0]

I have heard this before - some VRs (early ones?) don't run the aux pump at 100%, but late ones definitely do.

[GIXXERUK 0]

92 mine runs with the ignition

[DelMonty 0]

Today I got down and dirty with the fuse box, removing all the trim around the area and above so I could get a good look for this missing relay panel, which I can safely say does not exist, unless its located somewhere else in the car... :(

 

I plugged a few connectors together that had come loose/ been disconnected, but they don't seem to have done anything.

[Dutch24V 0]

Doesn't relay 14 sit on the relay panel just above the fuse box itself?

 

My Aux. pumps bearing is shagged so it makes alot of noise when it's running, but when I turn the ignition off when the engine is hot, the aux. pump stops and the cooling fans run for only 30 seconds or so, then stop for a minute or 2, then restart for 30 seconds again and so on? Any ideas anyone? Relay 14 maybe??

 

Sorry to jump in on your thread DelMonty but as it's realeted thought I'd ask here :wink:

 

Dutch

[DelMonty 0]

Doesn't relay 14 sit on the relay panel just above the fuse box itself?

 

Relay's 1 to 12 are located above the fuses on the same panel, according to ETKA and the Bently manual there are additional relays above this:

 

(From the Bently manual)

 

13 Back-Up Light Fuse (Auto. Trans.)

14 Coolant After-Run Control Module (31)*

15 ABS Hydraulic Pump Relay (78)*

16 ABS Relay (79)*

17 Open

18 Open

19 A/C Relay (56)*

20 Park/Neutral Position (PNP) Relay (150)*

21 ABS Hydraulic Pump Fuse/Power Window Circuit Breaker

22 ABS Valves Fuse

23 Cruise Control Fuse/Automatic Shoulder Belt System Fuse

24 Open

 

Although the Bently manual is for the American Corrado, ETKA also states the presence of this fuse box :?

 

My Aux. pumps bearing is shagged so it makes alot of noise when it's running, but when I turn the ignition off when the engine is hot, the aux. pump stops and the cooling fans run for only 30 seconds or so, then stop for a minute or 2, then restart for 30 seconds again and so on? Any ideas anyone? Relay 14 maybe??

 

Could be the control module, the fact the pump works with the ignition on, yet doesn't come on with the fans would suggest this - when my control unit clicks, the fans AND water pump run for the split second of the click....

The control unit isn't cheap new though, and it may not be the problem, I made this mistake, only to find the new one did the same thing :( In my case the problem is elsewhere.... Sounds like your thermostat is working correctly, as it's being cooled, but as the water isn't being circulated by the pump, the cooling is only temorary.

 

Sorry to jump in on your thread DelMonty but as it's realeted thought I'd ask here

 

No worries :) Hopefully we can crack these problems without too much expense ;)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I haven't got this elusive relay 14 either, not that I can find at least, but mine all works perfectly. I had to replace the controller AND the rad switch as I had no fans or after run at all!

 

If 14 does exist (where ever it may be hiding), then it could be that it's burned out and not sending the 10 minute timed output, but rather pulsing instead. When the iggy is on, it's bypassed so will work.

 

Fuse 15 is the aux pump's, so might be worth checking that too.

 

The after run is triggered when you turn the ignition off, even if you just flip the ignition on then off immediately, cold or hot. I'm sure the controller governs it. Some of the wires in the left hand plug on the controller dissapear into the car, see if you can trace them to the fuseboard.

[Supercharged 2]

You guys looked near the ABS relays?? - behind dash on passenger side...

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Pretty sure those 3 relays are all ABS related mate.... but I didn't make a mental note of the numbers when I was in there last, could be tho.....worth a snout.

[RW1 0]

Additional Fuse Relay positions

 

Erm, it’s not quite like that on European Corrados……

 

Relay 13 – ABS Hydraulic pump relay (78 )

Relay 14 – ABS Relay (79)

Relay 15 – Radiator Fan Run-on Control Unit (31)

Relay 16 – Fuel Pumps Run-on Control Unit (9)

Relay 17 – Heated Driver’s Seat Relay (59)

Relay 18 - Heated Passenger Seat Relay (59)

Relay 21 – ABS Hydraulic Pump Fuse

Relay 22 – ABS Valves Fuse

 

Different? ……. Of course, it’s a handcrafted car for a specific set of markets with separate requirements. The Scirocco & Cabriolet are the same. Therefore the Bentley (USA & Canada wiring standards) can only be used as a guide, not a bible.

 

Now, the diagram with 4 banks of relays is generic. When the C’s were built, each year the electrical circuits were either incorporated into them or not. Either because they were options or circuits were changed.

 

So, the elusive relay 14? Well yes it is fitted, but only to August 1991 to July 1993 Corrados fitted with an ABS option and non-VR6 cars at that. VR6 had a different electrical circuit as it got EDL (traction control with Teves04 braking). The relays (3 off) are up behind the glove box.

 

Relay 15? No, not Aux Pump relay on a VR6, the fan controller with temp sensor in the thermostat housing for that on a VR6, the one that drives the coolant gauge in the dash. Plus the ignition key has a trigger to the circuit as Kev says.

 

You need to look at the relevant wiring diagrams and for a certain year, the relay will appear in that wire circuit, not in the top fuse/relay panel busbar part of the diagram like relays 1 thro 12 if they are used. Most above in the list are for early Corrados upto about the end of production year July 1991.

 

The diagram standards overlap, so for instance a 1990 G60 standard was built upto 1992 but a 1991 VR6 had a modernised revised circuit so will not have that relay 15 any more. So two Corrados built one behind the other on the Karmann lines, chassis number wise each Corrado was different electrically for some circuits, which you might expect to be common such as the cooling wire circuits.

 

That’s why the upper two rows of the four on the fuse/relay panel are vacant or used depending on the age of the Corrado and what engine/options it had fitted.

 

Therefore you cannot assume cos the Bentley shows relays, they should be there. The diagram has to be read in conjunction with the relevant year’s wiring diagram to determine whether it exists for a Corrado/engine fit made in that year. Then the Bentely diagram doesn’t apply anyway for the top two rows on European Corados :).

 

.

[Dutch24V 0]

DelMonty, likewise mate, but this is my last niggling problem so will feel empty when I do finally fix it! :)

 

I hope you get to the bottom of your issue soon, but as you've already replaced the controller I'm not sure what's left to suggest. Is you dash showing the correct water temp.?

 

Well, it looks as if the controller could be shot then in my case as the temp gauge is working correctly and the aux. pump works fine as it comes on when the ignition 's on.

 

My car is with an auto electrician today as my alarm is acting strange and the bloody fuse for the inside blower keeps blowing. Maybe something crops up in his checks...

 

Dutch

[DelMonty 0]

Is you dash showing the correct water temp.?

 

Yes, and all 3 stages of the cooling fans come on as needed when the engine is running, as well as coming on when the car is hot and the engine turned off, suggesting all temp senders are ok.... It's just when the ignition is turned off from cold the clicking happens.

 

this is my last niggling problem

 

Ah! Tis' a happy place to be I bet :D

[swindon-corrado 0]

The relays to look at..

[Dutch24V 0]

Ah! Tis' a happy place to be I bet

 

It feels strange and somehow empty!!

...but hang on, I forgot, my steering still needs sorting as it's getting very vague. Ahhh, thank god, I still something to worry about 8)

 

Well, there's nothing wrong with my alarm after all and I still have the electrical gremlin blowing my blower motor fuse. The only thing I can think of on this one is the switch itself. I'm also going to have a play with the fan control module too as I want my aux. wtaer pump on when I turn the ign. off!!

 

Another C filled weekend me thinks....

 

Dutch

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yes, and all 3 stages of the cooling fans come on as needed when the engine is running :D

 

I'd be very concerned if speed 3 came on personally..... It's the 'last resort' speed and only comes on when the engine is about to overheat and burst a hose.

 

Clicking..... there's a wiring fault somewhere. I'd start by investigating the ignition feed, which terminates at the controller box. It's not getting a stable or enough voltage when the engine is off, causing the relay to ping on and off.

 

DutchVR6, I can break a few things for you if you like? :-)

[DelMonty 0]

Swindon-corrado, thanks for the pic but I've already tried replacing the fan controller with a new one from VAG, but to no avail :(

 

I'd be very concerned if speed 3 came on personally..... It's the 'last resort' speed and only comes on when the engine is about to overheat and burst a hose.

 

When I first bought the car, I didn't know all that much about the VR6 engine and didn't realise the rad temp sender had been disconnected, so it seemed to behave like any other car on the test drive, as in 1 fan speed coming on when the temp got to a certain point. Luckily the temp sender for speed 3 is in another location and was plugged in. This is how I know speed 3 works! :) After plugging the temp sender back in the varying fan speeds worked as they shoud; this is how I got to find out they all work :)

[DelMonty 0]

P.S kevHaywire, thanks for the advice, I will look into it asap ;)

[Dutch24V 0]

DelMonty, did you ever fix this issue btw?

 

Dutch

[DelMonty 0]

Spoke to Vince (who has loads of VR6 experience), and he recommended changing a temp sender, which I just picked up today from the local dealers. Will let you know if it fixes the problem :wink:

 

Did you get to the end of the fuse blowing conundrum?

[Dutch24V 0]

No, not yet, but I have all 3 temp. senders and a new aux. water pump to fit over the weekend, and as the aux. pump get's it's power from the same fuse for the ignition off over-run circuit I'm hoping it will fix the problem at hand.

 

I'm also thinking it may well be the fan controller too though, so will see.

Do you still have your old fan controller btw?

 

Dutch