Are shorter ratio gears available for Golf VR6?

[matth76 0]

Ok... I'm going to be having my gearbox out fairly soon to have the timing chains done and wondered if I could take this opportunity to improve my gearbox in any way (ideally to get slightly shorter gearing)? I'm having a standard new OEM clutch which is apparently very good (better than an aftermarket item). The only one thing that I have found with my Golf VR6 (ODB2) (when it is running well) is that you really have to go down a gear each time to get the power going... which I assume is because it has fairly long gear ratios, unlike the Corrado which has better gearing and slightly shorter ratios (allowing better acceleration). Some people say that the old mark 2 Golf gti 16v had better gearing too.

 

I have heard (but don't know much about) 3.68 / final drive/ differentials. What is this and are there different differentials available? What do the numbers mean - do they refer to the 'type/size' of differential? What does the Corrado VR6 have as I would want something similar to the gearing on the Corrado to improve my acceleration (I know it would reduce top end speed slightly but I want to concentrate on low down acceleration). What other parts are involved? And what would it cost for the parts?.. and approx time to fit while the gearbox is out?

 

I've heard of Quaife but I assume their parts are very expensive?

 

Also, are lightened flywheels supposed to improve acceleration? Whats the general cost for a lightened flywheel? I've been told by Stealth the standard flywheel is generally pretty good and shouldn't need replacing. However I'm interested in whether a lightened flywheel is a good thing or not? And while the gearbox is out are there any other easily accessible parts that could be replaced to be uprated with better parts to improve engine response?

 

Thanks for any help.

 

Matt

[PhatVR6 0]

it's the final drive you need to change.

 

The UK corrado has a 3.3:1 final drive, same as the golf vr6, and it's awlful, it kills the engine. 3.6 is a G60 final drive I believe. US corrado's came with a 3.6, and canadian ones had a 3.94!

 

I've gone for a 3.94 in mine, mainly because I knew I was going to be running 18"s when I had the box built for my old mk2 golf. That, and the 6 speed is like having another 50bhp,

 

you may want to consider going for a taller 5th gear too to compensate, I think my 6th os a 0.71:1, but my memory isn't up to much at this time of night,

 

you will need the crown wheel (ring gear) and the matching pinion shaft too (the gear teeth are actually part of the shaft you see.

 

well worth havig a quaife/peloquin diff fitted at the same time, the extra torque you have at the wheels due tot he gearing will mean you will have more traction issues

[VEEDUBBED 0]

I had a 2Y 020 gearbox in my old turboed golf 2 valver,the gearing was way 2 short,it was like a motorbike on acceleration,fine at first but it tires quickly so i then fitted a 4T version of a mk.2 GTD golf,much better,190km/h in third@7900rpm.

I've got a spare G60 02A 'box code CBA,if you need it i can strip it and post all the inner parts,saving you a load on postage??,let me know mate.

[Supercharged 2]

it's the final drive you need to change.

 

The UK corrado has a 3.3:1 final drive, same as the golf vr6, and it's awlful, it kills the engine. 3.6 is a G60 final drive I believe. US corrado's came with a 3.6, and canadian ones had a 3.94!

 

PhatVR6, Am I right in thinking that you can change this without dropping the box? If so, is it something you'd recommend (or think it's worthwhile) for VR owners to do..?

[matth76 0]

Thanks for your replies. So what is a final drive exactly? Is this what determines how short the gear ratios are? I assume a 3.94 will provide shorter gears and better acceleration compared to 3.68 but will have a lower top end speed? And the 'differential' is what controls traction? How much are the parts (new) you mentioned to change the final drive, i.e: crown wheel (ring gear) and the matching pinion shaft, and if I ask The Phirm about this will they have a supplier who will supply these parts new? Is it easy to set up a longer 5th gear or what extra parts / replacements are needed to implement this, and importantly how much?

 

How much is a quaife/peloquin differential? With the gearbox out is this easy to fit? Is this similar to limited slip differential or different?

 

Thanks for the offer Veedubbed.. However I'm going to see if I can get the parts new first. If not may take you up on your offer thanks :)

 

Also does a 3.68 final drive affect the speedometer in any way?

 

Thanks for your help with this.

[PhatVR6 0]

the final drive is the last stage of the gearbox.

 

it's the actually ring gear on the outside of the differential, which of course turns at the smae speed as the wheels, and the pinion shift which drives it. the number we're referring to relate to the difference i the amount of teeth (and thus the gear ratio) of the pinion and ring gear. i.e. it takes 3.94 turns of the pinion to turn the wheels once. in other words, the gearing is shorter with a 3.94 than it would be with a 3.3.

 

it's a gearbox out job.

 

althogh 5th gear can be changed with the box in the car.

[Supercharged 2]

althogh 5th gear can be changed with the box in the car.

 

Ah ok, got confused with that...

[matth76 0]

Cheers for your help. Would a taller / longer fifth gear be required with a 3.68 final drive? And is a diff essential too? Ideally I want to keep costs to a minimum.

 

What would be the approx cost to fit a final drive of 3.68 to a golf vr6 (I'm already having the gearbox out to do the chains so just need to know what 'extra' labour is required and how much the parts are for the final drive)?

[PhatVR6 0]

I think a quaife/peloquin diff is essential, yes. but I drive hard, and I go on trackdays too. somepeople need one, some people don't.

 

box rebuild is about £400

 

diff is £575

 

final drive is about £200 I think.

 

can't see it putting much more than £100 on a rebuild cost.

[matth76 0]

Thanks for your reply and info. So could I just go for the final drive (in theory) without anything else? Or would there be problems? I only use the car for road driving - no track days.

 

Cheers

Matt

[PhatVR6 0]

you could just go for the final drive, but if you're paying for labour, you'd be daft not to get a rfull gearbox rebuild

 

and that then makes you think diff....

 

and then flywheel

 

clutch

 

chains

 

etc

etc

 

I wouldn'y specifically pull the box out just to change the FD. save up for a diff first.

 

I always HATED the gearing in my old mk2 VR6, and they day I blew the gearbox up I actually stood and laughed and cursed the bastard then, then got the credit card out and rang stealth for a full on 3.94, quaife diff, gemini 6 speed and rebuild! which then changed to having it changed again into a syncro gearbox, with a peloquin diff and now a motorsport shifter.

 

The box is the best thing I ever bought for any of my cars. and yes, that inlcudes the 265bhp 3.2 engine I just sold.

[matth76 0]

Update: I was told by a vr specialist that I couldn't just go for a final drive. I would need 'all' different gears too. And then you need a diff. They said I couldn't just have a shorter ratio final drive which was a pity. I'm having my gear box out soon so thought it would be an ideal time to have a shorter 3.68 final drive fitted at the same time (for an extra £200). But apparently it's not possible without all the other gears being changed too. They reckoned..with the diff and all different gears it would be upwards of 2k !! So it looks like I'm going to have to give the 3.68 final drive a miss :( Be nice to have it though.

[matth76 0]

Can anyone confirm if a shorter final drive (second hand from a G60) can be fitted on its own (for an extra £200) or will all the rest of the gears need changing too?

[Supercharged 2]

I think Kevhaystack has a G60 5th and FD...

[PhatVR6 0]

They said I couldn't just have a shorter ratio final drive which was a pity. .

 

it's also a complete and utter lie.

 

I know plenty of people who've done it.

 

who told you that?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

They are indeed talking cack....it was http://www.thephirm.co.uk that told him that.

 

You can choose to lift out the gear stack and replace the FD and pinion shaft on their own, or incorporate a rebuild and quaife/peloquin into the equation too, but the gears themselves don't have to be changed.

 

This is why we keep saying "Stealth" (or Hotgolf) over and over because they know what they're doing with gearboxes. Watching Vince do a full rebuild, quaife and 3.68 on mine in a day was worth videoing!

[PhatVR6 0]

strange, never heard a bad word said about the phirm.

 

they've obvioulsy never had an 02a in bits then...

 

done it myself, but I was too scared to risk doing it with the 6 speed kit, I wanted a guarantee with that!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Never heard of them myself, maybe there were crossed wires....

 

It's the preloading that puts me off doing it myself, it can take hours to set that up if the factory shims can't be reused, but if you've got all the tools to hand and a good selection of shims, should be no worries.....and a press to put the diff bolts in!

[PhatVR6 0]

that's what put me off, I just didn't have the tools.

 

I've got to swap a G60 bellhousing onto a VR6 gearbox for a mk2 golf 1.8T conversion I'm doing, but I'l trying to convince the guy a full rebuild and peloquin should be done at the same time really. it's a "now or never" thing. or more like a "now or whenever the box spits it's diff out" thing!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Absolutely, you only want to do a box once, so may aswell fit the goodies in whilst it's off.

 

More people need to experience what a Peloquin or Quaife can do. As you said ages ago, the gearbox is often overlooked as a good thing to modify.

[PhatVR6 0]

especially when it's getting a 270bhp S3 lump......it'd be madness not to fit one. The whole idea of going for the vr6 box is for strength! and the low final drive to make use of that mid range grunt the 1.8T puts out.

[matth76 0]

Cheers guys. The Phirm are very good.

 

Kev, how much did you pay for your whole gearbox.. rebuild included?

[matth76 0]

How would my gearbox be with just the lower 3.68 final drive and pinion shaft on its own... without diff etc? Will it be pointless without the diff or will it still be a huge improvement with just the final drive on its own?

[PhatVR6 0]

if you're paying for all the labour, it makes no sense at all to do all that work purely for the final drive alone.

[matth76 0]

I'm having the gearbox out for the timing chains replacement. So is an expensive job. But if there was something that was 'relatively' cheap to improve my gear box while it was out I'd definitely like to fit a final drive. But not if it will be useless just on its own. Will it be no good on its own? The reason why I don't want to stretch to having a diff (much as I would like) and rebuild is because it will cost nearly £1000 (probably much more) on top of having my chains done. Will a final drive on its own be a vast improvement over the standard gearbox or is it not worth it on its own? If not I'll leave my gearbox standard.

 

Thanks for any help.