Building a 2.016vG60!!

[iow_corrado_g60 0]

HI mate rado looked sweet at the meet like the other wheels thou i didnt realise it was yours till nearly at the end of the day when mike told me it was because you didnt have your wheels on lol!

 

On topic now: what sort of power do you want also im glad your keeping her and making her better!

 

while everyone else doesnt grab them can i have first dibs on the bbm boost pipe please and the sns chip if your changing in over also will you be keeping the exhaust manifold!

 

Cheers Andy

[G60SC_Stoney 0]

while everyone else doesnt grab them can i have first dibs on the bbm boost pipe please and the sns chip if your changing in over also will you be keeping the exhaust manifold!

 

yeah im sure we can do a deal on them, wont be for a while tho, until the conversion is all complete.

 

why not save the block costs and run stacked gaskets.

 

dont like the idea of this, as said i also feel its a bit of a bodge, and as i can afford to get it done properly and have just made my G60 reliable im not willing to compromise on the conversion.

[G60SC_Stoney 0]

so will i be needing uprated 16v rods, i dont want them to be just capable of taking the strain, i like the idea of over-engineering everything!!

[iow_corrado_g60 0]

thats cool mate its more for the start of next summer that i want everything all clean in the bay anyway fella so thats all good

 

Cheers mate and good luck

 

Andy

[G60SC_Stoney 0]

shoulnt be a problem then, will have all sorts of bits going spare so ill put a thread up when its all done (whole block + Charger)

[VEEDUBBED 0]

I can say after having built and run for a year a 2.0 9A 16v engine and G-charger that stacking 2 'ABF' headgaskets worked perfectly for me,just remember to use new headbolts or ideally use an ARP or raceware stud and nut kit,no leaks,no boost press. loss,oil leaks...nothing.

[Yandards 0]

Not sure how I missed this thread for so long.

 

Righty, not sure about the 2.0l blocks to be frank, not doing one right now so not looked into it.

 

As for pistons/rods etc. I have Audi S2 pistons and rods in a KR block using a KR/PG crank (its the same thing) and that will give me around 8.5:1 CR. The original limited engine as made by VWM had a comp ratio of around 8.8:1. But JE do seem to be the best people to make up new pistons and I would go for forged ones.

 

I would bin the standard manifold and fit an RS2 style one. The reason being is that forced induction (FI) requires a completely different type of manifold to normally aspirated (NA) - just look at the forced VR thread and Kev's comments on the schimel for more on that.

 

Driveshafts, standard 16v driveshafts are not the same as G60 ones, fit some G60 ones.

 

Choice of bottom end, jury is out on this one. KR block has much better breathing and that is a must for this conversion or you will find a lot of oil being thrown around at high boost. PG block has the extra cooling by the No.1 cylinder.

 

Exhaust manifold/downpipe, for the best flow it has to be tubular but try to loose the existing 16v downpipe as it has a huge dent and a big restriction to increase back pressure in the flexi coupling - again fine for NA cars but not useful for FI.

 

Brakes, er big ones...

 

Electrics. You need to decide if you are going to stick with digifant managment or switch to an after market system. Digi is more than capable of achieving the task but you will need a loom, fuel rail electrics, uprated injectors (Although a limited I have seen ran standard green tops) ECU, custom map, complete set of digi senders etc. Also you have to be aware that your existing clocks wont work without modification. To get the MFA to read correctly you will need a set of G60 clocks but they only have a red line to 7k (Valvers are around 7440) and unless you get a really early set of clocks you can't mix and match parts. (VW don't have any either - I tried)

 

Odd custom bits and pieces - brackets for alt mountings, pulleys, a complete G60 bracket etc etc. The water outlet flange on the cylinder head for the 16v means you can't mount the G60 style one with the twin water temp sensors - these need to be relocated to the inlet flange on the side of the head next to the dizzy.

 

Intercooling. Standard G60 ones are pap on a standard G60 so get a bigger one, plenty of options here, custom, rallye, fit a rieger bumper and shove an S2 one in.

 

Bottom end of the engine, get everything balanced dynamically and make sure the crank is done with the clutch on it - a VR one will do as you will probably need an uprated clutch too. Fit the bearing shells from a diesel Mk.III Goof - these are stronger.

 

Get a windage tray for your sump - required or it is going to get messy.

 

Oil cooling. Invest in a 22 row cooler with a thermostat and shove it where the intercooler would live in a normal G60.

 

Need a G60 radiator, this means you will need a mix of water cooling hoses to suit both the 16v aspect and the G60 aspect.

 

Need a G60 PAS pump as the unions are at the wrong angle to clear the charger bracket on a G60.

 

Defo fit the head using an ARP kit, same with the bottom end bits, much stronger and more reliable in the long run.

 

Just get a copper head gasket and fit it (make sure to use some spray copper gasket material to aid sealing)

 

I would also get the intermediate shaft balanced and have them thin it out a bit and loose the cam lobe (Cam lobe is for a fuel pump for a Mk.I Goof I think)

 

Get the pistons and conrods balanced and try to get the weight difference between them down to a minimum. (Just good practice anyway - less vibration makes a more efficient engine)

 

Your existing fuel pump is more than up to the task so there is no need to change it.

 

Yet another problem is the ribbed belt crankshaft pulley, you will need a custom one made for the task because there is a difference in the widths of the 16v crankshaft pully versus the G60 one.

 

The alt probably wont clear the brake servo on RHD cars so it can be mounted under the charger in the same place the aircon pump would normally sit - this will reduce your belt run length which is only a good thing.

 

I have lost the standard G60 belt tensioner and replaced it with a spring - same system as the MK.III goof uses for tensioning the belt and JMR (He ran a 16v G60 for a few years after having built it) used the same set-up with no problems on his car.

 

Belt slip, I believe this wont be an issue on a standard pulley but you may want to look into a toothed belt kit if you intend to run a smaller pulley.

 

Have a look on the 16vg60 yahoo usergroup for more info and this website in Germany will let you pick and choose some of the parts required that I have listed above: http://www.rp-motorsport.de/en/g-lader/16v-g60-powerkit.htm

 

Oh and if you do it yourself your insurance is bound to ask for an engineers/MOT tester report as well...

 

It's not a bolt on job, although it can be a lot less involved than the monster list above I would feel more comfortable with the reliabilty of the set-up done like that.

 

Here is a pic of JMR's old car, even with the S2 manifold it looks very OE. (I would also add that it would have been easier to buy it at £7000 and save myself a lot of work..)

[G60SC_Stoney 0]

would a kr engine be able to come out to 2.0 ?? if so they are a lot more common than a corrado 2.0 16v block, so should be able to find a decent one for a lot less. as ive currently got a g60, sourcing things like driveshafts and PAS pumps wont be a problem, ideally i want to keep to the standard management as it starts to get rather more expensive if i change that round too!!

 

whats wrong with using a 16v intake ?? there cant be that much of a differnce in performance between the 2 surely ??

 

the cars got to be all about reliability too, i dont want anything melting or snapping because its not up to the task.

 

does anyone sell brackets to mount the alternator under the charger?? all the ones ive seen are as you say-in the way of brake servo, or do i get my engineer to fabricate them ?

 

as for the clocks im sure i can use the standard ones, i dont plan on taking it past 7k anyway!!

 

its all good info here, will pass it on to my new best friend!!

[Yandards 0]

Yes a KR will go out to 2.0 but I would not be keen on doing that as it will make the piston walls a bit too thing for my liking when using FI. Chuck a post on the 16v G60 yahoo forum as the yanks run a lot more 2.0 G60's than we do over here; although bear in mind their comp ratios are usually a bit rubbish compared to ours. The other issue is that the S2 pistons only come in one size, they do not make any in any of the standard overbore sizes.

 

Intakes. I don't have any figures available but it is well know that you need short runners to get more response out of a FI set-up. The existing 16v one narrows from one end of the other to increase air velocity, this is pointless on a FI set-up as the air is 'pushed' rather than 'pulled' In fact all this will do is increase your back pressure and as such reduce your available boost. A shorter manifold will also suffer from less heat soak from the engine, especially as the 16v manifold wraps around the top of the engine!

 

Alt brackets, I can get some dimensions off mine as the engine is still sat on the stand ATM; you will need a VR alt though and a I believe it is a pulley from a polo that will fit - I still need to source one but will give you a part number when I do.

 

Don't go for a solid belt tensioner - it just overstresses the belt and then it will snap, if you are going to go with the alt on the aircon location then just let it pivot on one set of lugs and put the spring from the MK.III in to tension it. You will have to wait and see if you need to go up a pulley size but the S2 manifold will help reduce belt slip by the drop in back pressure.

 

Probably want to find a fuel pump for a 16v as they whack out above 10bar so you will never get any fuel starvation issues. A standard G60 pump is running at max chat on cars like Henny's and there is no reason you won't put out more power than the heavily modded G60's with this setup, if done right.

 

As for not taking it above 7k where is the fun in that? :wink: The advantage the 16v set-up has is that aside from the crossflow as oppossed to counterflow arrangment is that is can rev due to the lighter valve gear and smaller valves - to get the best out of this you want to make it rev.

[VEEDUBBED 0]

Very good info. Yanards,1 other thing you could use like i did is the coolant sensor housing off the Audi S2 20V 5 cyl turbo,it's located behind the head near the knock sensors and other multi plugs,it houses an identical sensor to the blue g60's version,possibly easier to get hold of that the other piece and will leave you more room around that crowded part of the cyl.head.

[G60SC_Stoney 0]

surely a 16vg60 wont rev much higher than 7k anyway ?? looks like ill have to get a s2 manifold after all then....

[Yandards 0]

surely a 16vg60 wont rev much higher than 7k anyway ?? looks like ill have to get a s2 manifold after all then....

 

Sure it will.

 

As it a 16v head it will want to rev, only restriction is the charger rpm compared to the engine rpm. After I have slotted my current one in I intend to build a 16v G60 capable of 9250rpm on a standard pulley :twisted:

 

Veedubed if you look at the RPm website link I posted on the previous page they do a really tidy looking sensor mod so you can get both G60 water temp sensors on the side of the head. Is that S2 part you mentioned labelled up as a water collector on ETKA?

[VEEDUBBED 0]

I don't no Yan,i get most of my parts from my mate's car breakers,luckly he had a S2 in and i noticed it by accident while removing the wastegate,i'll get the number stamped on the body then you can check.

[G60SC_Stoney 0]

ok so just to clarify and sort out a shopping list, i need....

9a block

s2/custom inlet manifold

9a crank

9a rods

83mm pistons

 

thats a good start....going to be getting a BBM charger from Darren within the next few weeks and run it on my G60 as it is so i dont get bored between the build as well!!

 

quesion is can i run a chargecooler or is an intercooler still the better option ?? i think chargecoolers look a lot more neat and tidy than an intercooler, but they are less efficient, what sort of difference are we talking roughly ??

[GazzaG60 0]

who said they are less efficient?

 

thought that one had been covered in proevious threads.

[G60SC_Stoney 0]

its been said in other chargecooler vs intercooler threads that £ 4 £ an intercooler is the better option due to the fact its a big square at the front of the engine and a chargecooler has a load of pipework which needs to be connected to a swimming pool in the boot...just wondered if the performance differeneces were that major to he honest...