Short runner intake for 16v???

[mrbeige 0]

I've got a decision to make, and I'm not sure what to do....

 

Going to be putting Megasquirt onto my C, and will need to change the existing inlet manifold as the injectors that I will need wont fit into it, so I'm looking at getting an ABF inlet manifold, fuel rail and throttle body. ultimately I want to turbo the engine, which would ideally mean that I'd be better off with a short intake manifold of some description (audi s2 or modified 20v).

 

So....

 

Would it be a problem to run it normally aspirated with a short intake runner manifold, or would it become to undriveable like that? I use the car everyday to get to work and back so it needs to be reasonable well mannered.

 

Discuss....:lol:

[mrbeige 0]

Anyone? :(

[Kevin Bacon 5]

On your valver you may need to tweak the K Jet fuelling a little but, yes mate it will be fine. I've run my VR normally aspirated with a short runner and stock injectors/chip and it was fine..... ran really sweetly in fact.

[Toad 0]

From what I understand, a short runner intake on a N/A engine will probably result in a reduced torque, but I think the jury is out on exactly how bad this effect will be.

 

Chances are it'll be fine, and as a bonus I believe throttle response will be improved by having the throttle body closer to the inlet ports.

 

How long do you plan to run N/A before fitting the turbo?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Both true, especially the throttle response, it's electric.....but I didn't really notice much of a drop in torque tbh, but it did pull a lot harder past 4000rpm on WOT....which is where stock mannies fall short as the engine is right on cam and trying to suck loads of air in.

[mrbeige 0]

So I should be ok then! As I'll be running Megasquirt on it, it shouldn't be a problem to tweak the fuelling to match.

 

How long do you plan to run N/A before fitting the turbo?

 

Not sure, could be 6 months or 3 years! Depends on money situation really and also the condition of my block! (will be looking at finding a 2E 8v block for the right price)

[Toad 0]

So I should be ok then! As I'll be running Megasquirt on it, it shouldn't be a problem to tweak the fuelling to match.

 

How long do you plan to run N/A before fitting the turbo?

 

Not sure, could be 6 months or 3 years! Depends on money situation really and also the condition of my block! (will be looking at finding a 2E 8v block for the right price)

 

 

I've just turned a 2E down.... I can go and get it for you if you want... I'll find out what he wants for it.....

 

Why do you want a 2E anyhow? I dismissed it as being too much work to convert to 16V.

 

If you are interested by the 2E I can bring it to the RR day if you're gonna be there.

[mrbeige 0]

I've just turned a 2E down.... I can go and get it for you if you want... I'll find out what he wants for it......

 

Don't tempt me :lol:

 

Can't justify buying one just yet (unless its rediculously cheap :lol: ), I want to get MS working on mine N/A first, so I've got other stuff to get first.

 

Why do you want a 2E anyhow? I dismissed it as being too much work to convert to 16V.

 

Well, an engine rebuild would be on the cards anyway, so I'd prefer to lower the compression in an other way to using a spacer gasket, plus the piston crowns on the 2E are supposed to be thicker than 9a ones AFAIK. Also don't mind doing the work if it reduces the cost, but not the reliability

 

Quite like the idea of using all standard parts if possible anyway (not including ARP rod and head bolts and the like)!

[GazzaG60 0]

forget the 2e and get a 6a or 9a. too much messing with the 2e for the belts on the cheap.

 

short runner should improve top end on the NA valve. ive seen 14hp gains before now on dyno sheets. if you modded the valve with the cam mod or anything else to improve top end then itll help. like kev said the kjet may need a tweak.

 

to keep standard bits buy a full 9a or 6a and put 2 gaskets in there. use arp head studs but use ford 289 arp rod bolts to save a stack of cash. the std 9a pistons are better than the 8v ones i think. people have made over 400 wheel on a totally standard internal 9a 16v.

 

make the plenum at least 2l in capacity and a vr TB or mustang for uber power.

[mrbeige 0]

short runner should improve top end on the NA valve. ive seen 14hp gains before now on dyno sheets. if you modded the valve with the cam mod or anything else to improve top end then itll help. like kev said the kjet may need a tweak.

 

make the plenum at least 2l in capacity and a vr TB or mustang for uber power.

 

Was thinking of using a modified 20v inlet manifold, but was looking for one with the throttle body on the left (cambelt side). Does anyone know which car that is from? (TT?) Would that have a big enough plenum?

[GazzaG60 0]

a bit small for a proper 16vt. i think im right in saying the 20v has a smaller diameter runner too. it was designed for FI so works but its a production car part. the 16v was designed na so has bigger inlet and the option to use higher lift cams and solid lifter easier etc to flow the air NA. this really helps the big power turbo guys as its kinda like a modded 20vt already, ok the 20v flows better standard at standard lift but solid lifter and bigger cams changes the prospective and the differences are small. the fact that you can custom make a inlet that flows miles better than a 20vt inlet is kinda in 16vt territory as its a custom job anyway.

 

think of it as moving the pressure to the cylinder from the inlet.

 

to make the most of it id go custom plenum, 50mm runners and velocity stacks but the 20vt way will work fine. potentially some lost free HP though.

[mrbeige 0]

Would an s2 manifold be better than a 20v one then?

 

I don't have access to any welding gear, so custom making one isn't really an option, so if I'm going to have to do any modifying, then a manifold that will work N/A and forced, would be a bonus. I can't see myself going for silly power, so I'm not overly concerned about losing a little bit of power (short term anyway)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Wouldn't an S2 one need the 5th runner cut off and welded up? So back to square one with your lack of a welder issue!

[mrbeige 0]

Wouldn't an S2 one need the 5th runner cut off and welded up? So back to square one with your lack of a welder issue!

 

Erm, yes :lol:

 

Maybe I should find a welder.... :(

[Lippy 0]

just put a cork in the 5th one!

[GazzaG60 0]

welding ally is a fucker of a job unless you have the right materials, conditions and machinery. i think id just buy one next time.

 

try racecraft or boostfactory if you dont have fab tools and skills. they make very very good ones for not a lot. and the fuel rail will fit well too which can be a bitch. expect around 500 quid to your door though.

 

i made mine out of a big bore bottom part of a 16v inlet, a subaru sport inlet for the oval to round transition and some plate. cost about 50 quid in materials. finished in about 30 man hours (never done it before).my mate helped with the welding. im set up to run either a 75mm mustang throttle or a vr6 one.

 

best would be some nice tubing stock around 50mm and a oval transition tool but we are talking about the last few hp there.

[mrbeige 0]

Could I use an s2 manifold with the 5th runner chopped off, and a plate welded on teh end to take a VR throttle body then? I'm trying to keep cost down as much as possible really....

 

Then, I would just need to find someone around my area who is handy with a TIG welder...

[VEEDUBBED 0]

I had the same problems as you mate,no welding gear for aluminium,crap welders who charged the earth to fabricate 1 out of old valver inlets.

I bought 1 off ebay.de for 260 euro,brand new and almost like the Audi S2 version.

There was a moddied S2 version on the bay a few days ago with a 'buy it now' price of 280euro,looked ok,have a look and see.