G60 possiblilties 16v?!?!?

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Hey guys am new here, names Ad and i drive a couple of mk3 polo's a GT and a G40 (1.3 version of the G60 with a smaller charger), so probs not gonna be majorly popular on here, especially not when i tell you why i'm asking what iam......

 

Basically i 'm looking at getting a mk2 Scirocco as a project... low slung night rider stylie....

Now for the engine i really fancy a G60.... as far as i can tell there are engine mounts already produced for the mk1 golf to take a g60 enigine and box... and the rocco is built around the same chasis...

 

What i really want to know is if anyone has 16valved their G60... i know there is the 16v head from the 1.8 but i'm certain that the comp ratios will be different to start with.........

From here on in i'm unsre of the differences... i'm guessing you need sodium filled valves to go in it to start with....

 

So all you guys out there with the knowledge please enlighten me as to what else will need doing to make it work....

 

cheers

 

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[BigTartanJudge 0]

Do a search on here for 16VG60 or 16vg60 mate and you will get all the info that you require. It's not a cheap option and requires a lot of specialist bits to be collected or integration kit purchased (a popular method is to buy the BahnBrenner motorsport [bBM] 16VG60 integration kit, which basically supplies a lot of the necessary parts to convert a 16V lump, together with the 8V G60 lump into a 16VG60 engine, they are based in the USA but even with the customs duty, as the $ is so weak at the moment, it is very good value). Also I think G-Werks over here imports BBM parts as well, however, I think they are out of stock of the 16VG60 integration kits. In addition, I have heard these are going out of production soon (if not already) so I would get in quick and get one whilst they are still available in the States. As of the 7th of January there were only around 6 kits left in the USA..........and they have no plans, AFAIK, to have their suppliers produce any more.

 

If you use the 8V G60 as your base engine, it's easier and you need less parts but you do new special forged, low compression pistons or Audi S2 ones. You will also need Scirocco 16V upper and lower intake manifolds (very difficult to find, and command a high price as they are so rare), or a modified Audi S2 intake manifold (easier to find and cheaper). If you use the 16V engine as base engine, you need a hell of a lot more parts and have to lower the compression ratio using a metal head gasket AFAIK.

 

From BahnBrenner website:

 

Build Option #1 (G60 As Your Base Engine): No matter what engine platform you start with as your base, the best way is to build up an engine with custom pistons and the correct compression ratio for this boosted application. If you want your base to be the G60 engine platform using the G60 block, rods and crank. You will have to use custom pistons with correctly cut value relief's and the right compression ratio for boost. BBM has these custom pistons in a limited quantity.

 

Required 16V parts for G60 base engine:

 

* Custom BBM low compression 16V pistons for use in the G60 block

* 16V Cylinder head complete

* 16V Scirocco Intake manifold lower and upper

* 16V Distributor, complete

* 16V Distributor Block off plate complete

* 16V oil pump, complete

* 16V Secondary shaft and gears complete

* 16V Timing belt and gears, complete

* 16V Exhaust Manifold or 16V Header

 

Build Option #2 (16V As Your Base Engine): If your starting base engine is the 16V platform then you can use a thicker copper head gasket to achieve a lower compression ratio for use with the boost. This is not the best or correct way to generate the proper compression ratio on any engine, although it is a simple and less expensive route. The preferred method on the 16V base engine is to also use custom pistons with the correct compression ratio for this Supercharged system. BBM has these custom pistons in a limited quantity.

 

Required G60 parts for 16V base engine:

 

* G60 G-Lader Supercharger or BBM Screw Compressor Supercharger kit

* G60 G-Lader mounting brackets and belt tensioner complete

* G-Lader outlet (silencer box) or BBM RSR outlet kit

* G60 Serpentine / idler pulleys for water pump and alternator

* G60 AC pump or European water pump pulley

* G60 Throttle body, complete

* G60 Fuel Injectors and FPR

* G60 Idle stabilizer valve (ISV)

* G60 Digifant1 ECU and engine wire harness

* G60 Digifant control relay

* G60 Oxygen sensor

* G60 Water temperature sensor (blue)

* G60 CO% potentiometer

* G60 Relays, fuel pump

* G60 Intercooler, IC hoses to and from the G-Lader

* G60 Lower water pump pipe

* Upper and lower coolant hoses

* G60 Radiator and fan assembly

 

This all said, it is still quite an original option for power, as there are not a huge amount around.

 

Think there are 4 or 5 members on here that either have 1vG60 that they have built themselves / had built for them or are in process of building / getting built. There is also several useful resources on the net, including other forums such as edition38 and clubGTI on of which have members that have 16VG60's or are again getting built. Also do a google search for 16VG60 and you will come up with a lot of good info on several sites, including a Yahoo discussion group on building 16VG60, with heaps of great info, and the good old vwvortex forum based in the US.

 

Good luck. Here are some links to get you started:

 

http://www.bahnbrenner.com/media/php/16v.php

http://www.g-werks.co.uk/Products_Super ... fault.aspx

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/16vG60/

http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4831

http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread ... 975&page=5

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?i ... d=44933573

[Walesy 0]

Looks like 'Rightsaidfred' has covered most of your queeries g40 ad :wink: , that's a fairly comprehensive post! :) - but like he says - the search feature is your friend, you'll find loads of topics have been covered on here before so it's allways worth having a look.

 

Also, have a look at the scirocco regester, as i'm pretty sure there'll be a few G60 'rocos on there.

[VEEDUBBED 0]

I've done a few,there may be my old photos on here somewere,try looking in the search for 16v-G60.

[dirtytorque 0]

Not an easy option mate.But the interesting thing with it is that there are different ways of going about it.

Hope you have the stamina and the pockets for it mind. :)

 

Good luck and keep us posted if u do go forward with it.

:thumb right:

[BigTartanJudge 0]

Looks like 'Rightsaidfred'

 

Haha.........I'm too shecksy ;-)

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Cheers guys! nice to see a forum where people know their stuff!!!

My thinking was to work from a standard G60 lump n charger..... basically movin house soon to fingers crossed sum where with a garage so if i can get a decent g60 engine start with stripping it down replace this that n the other, so i'd be starting with a decent base... then start choppin around n seeing what i can do with it.. hence the 16v conver...

 

Just out of interest "right said fred" when you say you need low comp pistons...obviously lower comp is needed but could a head spacer not be used instead.... or would S2 pistons fit straight in? i've never gone as far as playin with pistons before really, but its a 2.2 isnt it?!!

 

Cheers

 

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[BigTartanJudge 0]

AFAIK,

 

You need S2, RS2 or custom pistons to lower the comp ratio, as when fitting the 16V head the placing a 16V head on an 8V G60 PG block lowers the CR approx 1.8 Points. Since the G60 engine already has a CR of 8:1 then dropping that CR 1.8:1 points lower will bring it to about 6.2:1,definitely too low for a 16V G60. Now for the conrods, you can use your stock/OEM PG G60 rods but it is recommended that you use PL 16V Rods + custom (or S2/RS2) pistons due to the fact that your rod ratio using the PG rods will be too short.

 

Thicker metal head gaskets are used to lower the CR if you start with a 16V lump as base engine. Also, I think Audi S2/RS2 pistons drop straight in and are cheaper (about £80 each new, set of second-hand ones for about £100-£150) than getting custom ones (Wiseco, JE etc. - about £450-£500). Have also found another couple of sources for the 16VG60 integration kits (RP-tuning includes custom manifold and pipework) [these kits are VERY similar to the BahnBrenner kits, but are still in stock and readily available, and around the same price]:

 

http://www.rp-motorsport.de/en/g-lader/ ... werkit.htm

http://www.orz-motorsport.com/16VG60%20engine.html

 

Also, here is a "How to build a 16V-G60" guide from VW Vortex and Fourtitude forums, and also Kompressor Kanada and another guide:

 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1784212 (VERY GOOD GUIDE)

http://forums.fourtitude.com/zerothread ... 212&page=7 (VERY GOOD GUIDE TOO)

http://www.kompressorkanada.ca/howto/16vG60.htm (GOOD GUIDE)

http://mysite.verizon.net/laurin99/g60.htm (NOT BAD, BUT PART NUMBERS ARE ALL VW MOTORSPORT ITEMS, SOME NOT AVAILABLE ANYMORE AND ALL VERY EXPENSIVE, BUT BASICS CORRECT)

 

The best resource of info on how to build this engine is probably these guide above and the Yahoo discussion group which I suggest you join up for help:

 

16vg60 group on yahoo http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/16vG60 (FOUNTAIN OF KNOWLEGE)

 

As far as manifolds go, it is easier to source and subsequently modify an Audi S2 inlet manifold (and I think it looks better when fitted, as doesn't encroach over the top of the 16V head), or you can buy a custom one (these are basically custom-built, CNC-machined copies of the Audi S2 intake anyways, with one runner cut-off and overall length shortened). There are several sources of these, including Roma Tuning, SLS-tuning RP-Motorsport (mentioned above) etc. These are all used in the EU.

 

It's also worth speaking to individuals (especially John Mitchell from JMR, as he self-built a 16V-G60 rado in the past, not sure if he still has it ?, but he is on here as a member though) on various forums who have had experience of actually building these engines, as they will know the best soloutions, and which people at companies to direct you to to source parts and get better technical advice than I can offer. All the stuff I have posted is info I have collected over the years on building these engines when I was thinking about doing it, but I decided in end to stay 8V G60 for now.

 

Hope this helps answer some questions mate.