chargecooler or intercooler on Vr6 Supercharged

[ANTIHERO 0]

Hi , which is the best option when looking at cooling a vr6 supercharged car? and which one ies easier to fit?any idea;s on the best set up/make ect?

 

thanks

ryan

 

sorry if it has been asked before

[Kevin Bacon 5]

The Forced Induction VR6 Thread :wink:

 

What supercharger? We've found that the Vortech V9 struggles to fill an intercooler and you generally lose around 4psi through them, sometimes more. A chargecooler is better from a pressure loss perspective, but they have their own complications.

 

Myself, StormchargedVR6 and B15 VWC use a Schimmel chargecooler and we're very pleased with them 8)

[g60karmann 0]

I have just fitted a Jabba charge cooler to my g60 and that was very very easy to fit

 

there was no cutting or even mounting involved in the second radiator

 

I used a 1.6 golf radiator that sits snug against the plastic sides of the g60 radiator and then the slam panel holds it real tight in place. I got a little in-line electric water pump and going to be fitting a secondary expansion tank as i'm just using the wind screen washer tank at the moment.

 

The main advantage I have seen from this is quicker throttle response due to the reduced pipework and a hell of a lot cooler charge than the original g60 intercooler (not that that will affect your decision).

 

The only issue with the charge cooler I have is that I think the max air pressure it effectively cools is 20psi (still need to confirm this with Jabba) which is no good if you go turbo but fine for a g-ladder, you can get charge coolers that are effective at much higher pressures but they cost a lot.

 

I would go for a charge cooler as there aren't as many around and it is a nice bit of bling under the bonnet (will be posting some pics on my gallery thread tonight)

[ANTIHERO 0]

how much is one of those set ups , i was heading down route of the chargecooler , how easy are they to fit into a system?

[g60karmann 0]

I'll put up a guide of how I fitted mine tonight or tomorrow obviously the boost pipe locations are going to be different but the charge cooler, radiator, pump and overflow tank mounting will be pretty much the same, took about an hour or two.

[ANTIHERO 0]

cool......how easy was it to hook up to the charger and inlet? looking at sourcing the parts seperate as its cheaper than a kit at the moment....

[chazrad 0]

Just my 2p worth: Do you really need either?

 

What kind of 'charger have you got, and what kind of boost are you expecting to run? Intercoolers and chargecoolers are fine except that they increase the amount of pipework that you have to fill when boosting (however short you try to keep it - ie with a short runner etc) and secondly, I'd question whether they are even necessary on a VR6 up to about 8 psi.

 

My 'Vortech V9F runs 8 psi (Stage 2 - about 280-290bhp), and I have Aquamist fitted as a safety measure but no other form of inlet charge cooling. The Aquamist only comes in a) when I switch it on and b) when the engine climbs above 4500 rpm. Aquamist has come in for some stick on this Forum in the recent past although has been fine with me.

 

Nevertheless, I think its fair to say that if you are running up to 8 psi, there's little requirement for cooling. Going Stage 3 (11 psi pulley) and above? then fair enough. With that out of the way, now rejoin the perennial debate about whether to charge or intercool... :scratch: :D

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Intercooling, regardless of boost pressure, is about keeping the intake charge as dense as possible, and therefore ensuring consistent, repeatable torque.

 

If you take an average Stage 2, you can expect 280-290hp and 240 - 250lb torque on the first cold run.

 

If you look at James's (CorradoVR6-NOS) when his was stage 3+ through an intercooler, IIRC, his power was 310hp and 295lb/ft torque. That may not sound a big increase over stage 2, but that torque of 295lb is a lot better than the Stage 2's and more over, it's repeatable too. That's also accounting for the pressure drop through the IC. So you have to run the charger harder to get the same power-ish, but the results are better imo.

 

With my stage 2, by the time it had been dyno'd 5 times (even with Aquamist), power fell to 265hp and torque to 235lb. If it was intercooled, it would remained the same, or very close to the original cold run figures.

 

Golf 150hp 1.8Ts only run 8psi as standard, but they're still intercooled. Without it, they'd feel flat as a fart in the summer after a few hard runs.

[ANTIHERO 0]

well i am looking to run stage 3 (not sure what pully yet) + 264 cams ,stainless manifold + system,Aquamist water injection + oil cooler + remap

 

i am looking for something that will keep the damage of the engine by keeping it cool and more reliable .....but not break the bank lol./.

[ANTIHERO 0]

it will be running 12 psi , so thinking about head spacer gasket + apr head bolts to

[KADVR6 0]

the chargecooler set up can be done for alot less than the schimmel set up, ok its not going to be so highly speced as the schimmel stuff. but for about £400 you can do it.

 

i know this as thats what i spent on my set up, before i sold it all to go R32.

[ANTIHERO 0]

where did you get your set up from..i am on a budget so need something good but reliable.....

[KADVR6 0]

well for the chargecooler you can get this one http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/POLISHED-LIQUID-A ... 0235433366 they also sell the pumps for them at about £50, or get the r32 water pump as this pushes more water around the system.

 

and as for the chargecooler pre-rad, you need something like this http://cgi.ebay.com/CHARGE-AIR-COOLER-S ... dZViewItem

 

see how cheap you can do it.

[ANTIHERO 0]

where is the best places to get the piping? ect...would you remap before or after you instyall the chargecooler?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

You don't need an R32 water pump as it's exactly the same as 12V one, therefore easily available second hand or new, what ever....

 

It's a crap pump for chargecooling anyway imo.

 

If you're going to do it, do it right, don't skimp. Lessons can be learned from that on this very forum (and others).

[ANTIHERO 0]

not really about skimping but more like having a budget......as much as i would like to but the top of the range stuff at the moment there is alot of wrk that i need to spread my cash out on....

 

i know if you get some of the parts seperate it can work out a bit cheaper as i seen chargecooling kits going for 1400+ compared to aout 500 quid if you source the parts and spend the time....

[g60karmann 0]

look on the second hand market as well, I got mine from a small ad in the back of PVW for dirt cheap, basically picked it up with a box full of the charge cooler, rad, pump, pipes, belt tensioner, sns chip and grey cossy injectors for £260 :clap: happy days, could do with replacing the slightly dented rad but it works for now :)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Not trying to quash your plans mate.... just saying everyone works to a budget, whether it be £100,000, £10,000 or £1000. There are parts we all like that are way beyond both budget scales, but it's more about building parts that are fit for purpose and I personally don't like cutting corners..... even if if means living on bread and water for a month :D

[ANTIHERO 0]

yeah point taken.........Question is how do you fit a chargecooler into the vr6 superchager set up? trying to find some quides or pics but cant find any??

 

need to know the best place to mount it ,eg:size ect

[chazrad 0]

yeah point taken.........Question is how do you fit a chargecooler into the vr6 superchager set up? trying to find some quides or pics but cant find any??

 

need to know the best place to mount it ,eg:size ect

One of two ways if I understand correctly:

1. Using a chargecooler that fits in the battery location under the bonnet: Its been done by Shaun (stormchargedvr6) on this Forum. Look up his Members thread. Note that he ran a Schimmel chargecooler and Schimmel short runner intake too, to keep the pipework as short as possible, but its still lengthy as the pipework stretches from the 'charger, around the back of the engine and round to the chargecooler which is located in place of the battery, then off to the inlet. If you were trying to run this kind of cooler in this location with a standard VR6 manifold, you will have pipework doing a full lap of the engine bay!! :lol: which will result in pressure drops.

 

2. Using a cylindrical charge cooler as made by PWR and others, and using the standard VR6 manifold. There is just about enough space to fit a short and fat PWR 'cooler into the space between the 'charger and the throttle body, but not by much! It at least keeps the pipework as short as possible. Someone on here was running that setup..forget who now. CrazyDave (use Member's Gallery again) uses a PWR charge cooler though, if you want to see what one looks like. Note that they come in different shapes and sizes for different applications.

[ANTIHERO 0]

hey dude,,,thanks for the reply..i think the pwr is the best one to go for due to space......otherwise to much pipework and like you say pressure drops.....

 

better do it right first time !!!!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Here you go mate, Shaun's car running a Schimmel Chargecooler setup with his old Vortech charger. The CC setup comprises of a Spearco intercooler core, Setrab prerad and Meziere water pump and is built for 700-800whp. It's the same one I use also, and Bobbi (B15 VWC). There was zero pressure lost through that on the dyno.

 

The PWR barrel coolers are OK up to a point and have a bit of pressure drop. Just depends on your future upgrading plans.

[Lizard Racing 0]

I doubt a PWR will fit between the Vortech and original throttle position. I know that I couldn't even fit a Pace chargecooler I had kicking about between my old Vortech and the throttle.

 

Here is a PWR set up with a Rotrex charger.

[ANTIHERO 0]

do you remember what size the pwr one was? think i might have to install the charger first then look at my option....Question about the pump , how do you connect the power up for that?so that it does run live all the time and only when the car is on?

[Lizard Racing 0]

It was a 4" x 6". You can either wire the pump to the ignition live in the engine loom depending on current demand though, or use relay.