VR6 Puff of smoke when it starts up - implications?

[snattrass 0]

Yes just when I start it up and pull off it lets out a little smoke. Afer the first pull away out of the drive there is no longer any but i know it uses a fair bit of oil although i couldnt say how much.

 

 

What are the implications and costs - worst, best case most likely scenarios?

 

 

Advice please.

 

 

Cheers, Simon

[Jim Bowen 1]

is this a sign of valve seals leaking oil into the cylinders?

 

i'm not very clued up but think i've heard something like that

[Valerian 0]

Sounds like valve stem seals to me as well.

Seals are not too expensive but labour will be quite a bit.

I'm sure one of the VR boys will be along shortly to enlighten you about the cost.

[snattrass 0]

Yes a mechanic mentioned valve stem oil seals and if it could be not so difficult i would be prepared to do the work myself. Just wonder of there's a way of knowing whether it's that or something more serious - or is it one of those suck it and see - fork out till ur destitute - chasing ur tail problems!?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Best test for valve stem seals is to find a quiet stretch of road, blast up to about 6000rpm in 3rd, then take your foot off the gas completely and let the engine slow down to about 2000rpm, then floor it again. Check the rear view for smoke!

 

If the guides are really bad, there will be quite a big puff!

[tandino 0]

I found lowish rpm in 5th down a long hill highlighted mine to its worst effect, high rpm in a low gear was not as bad for the smokescreen.

Whatever way its defo sounds like stem oil seals.

I just did a head rebuild on a spare head i had,my palms are still sore from lapping 12 valves in!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yeah 5th coming off the motorway is a good one too......the gearing turns the crank faster, so creates even more vacuum

[boost monkey 0]

ditto VSS :salute:

[snattrass 0]

Thanks I will check those tests.

 

 

To be honest it only seems to do it when it starts first thing in the morning after sitting there all night. If I start it up again even say 1/2 an hour after tootling round town it wont do it again.

 

 

Spoke to my mechanic and he said it could be VSOS's but he said it could also be bottom end stuff too. He said to try to put Wynns Seal Conditioner in with the oil so I think I will try that for starters anyway. Looked on ebay and have seen this Wynns stuff but also FORTE SEAL CONDITIONER - anyone any experience about which if any are any good?

[tandino 0]

Personally i dont believe in all that old gear,

All your ding is prolonging the inevitable anyhow.

if you really want to try and get a bit more mileage out of a tired head then go up a grade on the viscosity of your oil but bare in mind winters approaching

[PROVR6 0]

Most likely is VSSeals or piston bore wear. You can check for wear with a compression/leakdown test. However yours seems more like VSS as its a classic sign of it doing on start up in the morning. The oil slowly passes the seals overnight while not being used and gets burnt off as soon as you start the engine in the morning. The fact that it dosen't do it the rest of the day is because not enough oil has got past the seals between firing up the car. (If you look closely, especially at night under headlights you will see that the oil is actually burning all the time but without much noticeable smoke) My old ST24 had the same symptoms. I tried some wynns additive to see what happens and it will slow the amount of oil burning but only because the additive is effectively a thicker oil. By switching to a higher Viscocity oil will also slow your oil consumption but if you go too thick your engine won't be protected, especially on start up.

 

My car was using about a litre of oil every 400 miles (which is bad), by changing to a higher grade oil I got about 700 miles per litre (1 litre being the diff between min and max on the dipstick). Performance was unaffected and I drove another 15000 miles troublefree before selling the car.. Ive read by changing the seals can reduce oil consumption to virtually nil. I was quoted 400 quid to have mine done but didn't bother cause I wasn't gonna keep the car much longer. Just made sure I checked the oil every week and topped up as necessary

[winchbietch 0]

I agree with above comment, UR ONLY PROLONGING THE INEVITABLE.

We use Fort'e conditioners with my work and they do the job but if wear is there its a temporary fix, dependig on wear depends how long things last. Had similar prob with my vr occasionally smoking on overun and as it is a daily drive i did the il sort it another day, Jobs soon stack up, eventually saved the money and bit the bullet after blowing 3rd gear on my gearbox. Pulled engine out and apart. Provided its only the head to sort it wot be too too expensive, but parts and money do start to add up! If ur spark plugs are getting all clogged up and its using excessive oil the problems may be lower in engine.

I hoped for only valve stem seals shot but I found i had scorred bores and a breaking up timing chain tensioner greeting me when i did mine, ended up doing a complete engine rebuild less the crank with new parts and having a re-bore with oversized pistons. Would'nt be doing it again, would do a r32 swap, prob have worked out cheaper.

A cheap quick fix would have been to get rid of it when things began and buy another.

Not meaning to scare you mate. Urs may not end the same as mine but bear this in mind if its smoking badly and using oil.

[snattrass 0]

This is exactly what I mean about the VR being the less resilient of the rado blocks!!!

 

 

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=72664

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Buy a different car then.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Or a new engine perhaps? - viewtopic.php?f=13&t=72899

[snattrass 0]

Options, options options!!! Thanks will check out that link CheeseWire when i get a spare second.

 

 

The main thing is trying to work out whether it's more likely to be top end or bottom end work. Top end is Ok but bottom end i think u might as well buy a decent second hand engine that is in better shape. I will check with my garage about compression test results.

 

 

He did say the sparks were black and that it is consuming oil - is this bottom / top end indicative and are there any pointers that can help me to know whether it's worth doing the top end on the basis that the bottom end is more than likely ok?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Did he say if it was plugs 1 and 6, or all of them? 1 and 6 only is definitely bore wear, they're the hottest running cylinders and aren't tolerant of over heating. This seems to happen more on the 2.9 for some reason, perhaps from dragging a heavier car around with a high rev limit....Corrados were ragged to an inch of their lives more than the Golf because they handle a lot better (from the factory).

 

Personally I'd just replace the whole engine, maybe with one of those 2.8s in the link. They're good solid engines those ODB2s.