VR6 Head re-furb' parts list

[adamukcorrado 0]

First the problem...

 

My Vr6 has had a tappetty noise to the engine as long i have owned it (4years), it there about 75% of the time, mainly when hot, i have replaced all tappet's/lifters with new (VAG), i have replaced oil pump (to ensure good pressure to tappets etc) i have replaced timing chains and tensioners, the head has been off couple of times now for works by JMR but the noise continues unchanged! (but i am yet to replace valve guides/stems/seals) Is a worn valve or guide likely to make an occasional slight rattly noise?

 

I am now getting quite a lot of blue smoke on overun (not noticably using oil tho yet) so the time has come to fully recon head. I'm going to remove and refit the head myself as i want to know how to do it, but will use a machine shop for the head re-furb as obviously i don't have the presses required to fit guides. I will check cylinders 1 & 6 before comencing to check i'm not looking at worn cylinders, what other checks can i do to confirm problems before disabling the car on my back garden - how much will a compression test cost & is it worth it?

 

I'm getting parts from USA from

http://www.spturboparts.com/OEM/viewPro ... alve+Grind

 

What are all the parts i should order? is it worth buying new valves or just guides and seals etc?

The website only lists 2.8 us spec parts - are they the same for the 2.9 uk spec?

 

Thanks!

[tandino 0]

Depends on how worn the valves are, guides will usually wear before the actual valve stems wear due to the nature of the guide material.

2.8 guides and stem oil seals are identical to 2.9 bits...

[adamukcorrado 0]

Once removed, will it be obvious if the valves are worn??

 

It will get expensive replacing all the valves, so i will probably order the bits i certainly need (guides and seals) and then order valves if i need them,

It doesn't matter how long car is off the road for,

[tandino 0]

Youll have to measure the stems with a vernier to get an idea of wear.

If you cant find the specs ill have a look in the Bentley tomorrow.

[adamukcorrado 0]

I'm intending to do the work over xmas whilst i've got some time off work and i'm hoping to get a copy of the bently manual before then, so i was just researching at the moment so i can get the bits together. Thanks anyway tho,

 

Any thoughts on whether worns valve guides etc could be responsible for the tappetty noise?

[adamukcorrado 0]

anyone?

[adamukcorrado 0]

I've spoken to a couple of cylinder head specialist, (stealth, Ric Wood, TSR) and your looking at £400 ish to have them re-con the head, They all said it's probably just the stem seals that have gone hard,

 

Therefore i can do that myself?? - it's obviously a big and time consuming job, but there is no need for pressing guides in etc?? that would mean in terms of parts i would just need; Headgasket set and bolts, and Stem seals?

 

Realistically the car only does 2000 miles a year, and isn't going to last forever, so it doesn't need a full recon head with new valves and guides etc,

 

Any thoughts or advice??

[zak 0]

Worn vale guides wont be responsible for the tappety noise but if your are going to take the head off and do the guides and tappets then i would change them. On higher mileage engines the guides can wear causing higher oil consumption so woul de worthwhile replacing to save taking the head of to do the job at a later date, A complete set of 12 guides is about £70 from GSF and depending how competant you are they can be replaced using a drift. If not you can get an engineering firm to press them in.

[adamukcorrado 0]

The tappets are nearly new any way, and i'm not using any oil, to replace the guides will cost £70, then £250 to have them fitted,+ £100 on head gasket etc, if i just do the seals it will effective save £300...

 

2 years ago i would of replaced it all with out hessitation, because as you say, it's worth doing whilst it's all open, and if i used it as a daily drive it would be worth it, but it only comes out to play when the sun is out (not often in manchester). I bet it will only do another 10k in it's life, so there's no point in it having a cylinder head that will do another 100k...

 

christ i'm sounding old... :-(

[adamukcorrado 0]

To redeem myself alittle, i could spend the £300 saved, on a new set of cams to fit whilst the head is off.. :-)

[adamukcorrado 0]

Is there a way of removing the valves with out the proper VW valve lifting tool?

[Skimask 0]

Adam, I think you'll probably find the guides won't need done - but you will not know until you've removed the head.

I had a problem with plug no 6 fouling up after a few weeks - and lots of blue smoke on over-run. When I removed the head and valves there wasn't any more play on the valves on no 6 than any of the rest. When getting the head skimmed I asked the shop to replace the guide - but he told me it wasn't necessary - it would be the valve stem seal that's causing the problem. You won't know the condition of the head until you remove it matey!

As for the tappety noise - I don't think worn giudes would produce that type of noise. Even though you've replaced the lifters - it could be the cams are worn.

I did find a lot of pitting on the exhaust valves - and asked the machine shop to grind them in when skimming the head. Grinding in the valves is an awful job - if you can let the machine shop do it.

Has it cured the oil burning - I don't know! The engine is a spare sitting in my hut with all the chains and guides done, and hasn't been run.

I remember the head gasket set - lifters, head bolts and timing chain parts came to about £200. The head skim and regrind came to about £70.

[adamukcorrado 0]

Yeah i realise that i won't know exactly what is required before removing the head, i'm going to whip the plugs out first to check cylinders 1 and aren't more oily than the others (they are the pistons the bore gets worn on first - would that not explain your oily number 6??) if the valve stems and seals are worn the cylinders are generally oiled more uniformly.

 

The head was last off about 2k miles ago when i replaced all tappets and JMR reported it all to be in good condition - hence not replacing things then

 

To be honest if the bores are worn or it requires more work than basic cylider head stuff such as seals, then i will break it up and buy something new to use as a daily drive, as i can't justify spending more cash on it as a weekend toy.

[adamukcorrado 0]

I've also been talking to stealth and kev 'cheesewire' and they both think it could be the serpenine belt and tensioner that is responsible for the rattly noise, they can't fully explain why the belt makes the noise, but stealth said they have come across the problem on severval Vr6's and kev found that using a cheap GSF belt gave his car the tappety noise,

[Skimask 0]

Yeah i realise that i won't know exactly what is required before removing the head, i'm going to whip the plugs out first to check cylinders 1 and aren't more oily than the others (they are the pistons the bore gets worn on first - would that not explain your oily number 6??)

 

No Adam, As I had the engine dismantled - The bores had very little wear - which I was surprised at!! I also removed piston No6 just in case a broken ring was hiding in there - but they were all OK. However as I had removed the piston I also replaced the big end shells and bolts on No6 - I just didn't want to put the old ones back on as I had 'disturbed' them.

The bores were all the same across the 6 cylinders - so OK. It's just Cylinders 1 and 6 that get more heat and perishes the valve stem seals more! Besides the engine was putting out 208 BHP - If there was excessive wear - then it would likely be a lot lower than that.

[woody 0]

Adam

If JMR changed the timing chain he would have used VAG parts!!! not GSF.

[adamukcorrado 0]

Woody, i'm talking about the Rubber belt and pulley tensioner being responsible for the noise, not the timing chains, as i have said, the tappets and timing chains and all tensioners are brand new, yet the tappety noise remains unchanged.

 

I realise everything that JMR has replaced has been replaced with VAG - I paid for it! :-(