Non starting...possibly fixed - anyone got a Toad Ai606?

[TomD 0]

Hi all!

 

Now I know what your thinking....ignition switch...but....

 

The car has never ever had a problem with randomly not starting! A few months ago I had a new Toad Cat 1 alarm fitted, and around the same time I changed the steering column as mine had a bit of play in it.

 

Anyway since then my car has had a starting problem....

 

In the morning, its fine. Coming home from work, if it's been sitting for a while, its fine - the problem occurs (sometimes) if I'm doing a journey, stop somewhere for times approx under 1 hour (so stop for petrol, drop something off etc), turn the key, you can here the fuel pump going and everything else turns on, but no starter motor.

 

So did alot of searching on the forum and found about about the whole white ignition switch bad, black ignition switch good thing.

 

Checked it out and it turned out my original steeing column had already had the rubbish white switch replaced with the black switch, so when i changed the column I changed backed to a crappy white one.

 

So I changed it back (mission!) - thought I'd solved the problem. But no. So after the AA man helping me to jump start the car today, I need to sort it out!

 

So...is there anything else I can check? Could it be the ignition barrel rather than the switch? If the alarm lets me jump start it and you can here the fuel pump then I guess its not the alarm? Relays? ECU?

 

Any magical cures better than always palking facing downhill? :)

 

Cheers, :D

Tom

[waynos 0]

could be your starter on is way out

 

i had the same problem and now its fixed

read my solution below

http://www.the-corrado.net/.archive/forum/viewto ... =1&t=73566

[Jim 2]

This sounds like a problem a friend of mine had years and years ago.. so long ago, I was still too young to drive so my recollection is hazy. But it was on a Corrado (1.8 16v) He used to get exactly the same problem. Fine when cold in a morning - and fine if it had been left standing for a few hours.. but really unlikely to start if you've just stopped for fuel or something.

 

Turns out something to do with the alarm or immobiliser had been fitted in the engine bay, and was very sensitive to heat - so as the car got warm, this component (whatever the hell it was) heated up and played up.. and subsequently he could never start the car. If he left it for an hour or so to cool down it was fine.

 

I know it's a long shot and I'm assuming the alarm was professionally installed - but it's the only occasion I've heard of something similar to this!

[TomD 0]

Cheers for replying guys!

 

Waynos...did the loom you made up work then?

 

So the heat causes the voltage to drop low enough so that the starter motor won't fire up? Is that how the starter motor works - if it doesnt get enough voltage it doesnt turn at all rather than turning really slowly? Or is that specifically a dodgy solenoid/dodgy voltage to solenoid.

 

Does your loom work in the same way as an uprated headlight loom...ie turning on the switch sends a signal to the relay, which in turn draws power straight from the battery, hence giving a higher voltage?

 

Would I be able to use an uprated headlight loom relay? Could make that loom up on the weekend if I did.

 

My voltage has always been a bit crap!

 

Jim...that's what I thought initially but the alarm stuff is all under the dash I think rather than the engine bay (apart from the siren) I rang the alarm guy and he said he's fitted hundreds of Toad Cat 1 alarms and never had any probs with it, and they are tested to XXX degress etc.

[waynos 0]

works exactly the same way as the headlight relay. It probably would work just make sure the relay is beefy enough to handle the current drawn by the starter. think mine was rated either 30 or 40 amps (got it off ebay for a few quid)

 

i also thought this problem was my alarm. which i replaced with a toad and still had the same thing happen!

 

EDIT: have been using the relay for nearly 6 months now and all is good still

[TomD 0]

OK - new development.

 

This morning it didnt start...had to get my gf to help me bump start it. It's never not started in the morning before!

:(

 

Gonna try and make up the loom like you've done as see what happens! :)

[TomD 0]

Problem is that's not a hot start problem - it was stone cold! :(

 

Could it be the starter motor is on the way out? :(

[waynos 0]

could very well be! whats the battery condition like? Can you do some tests to see if the alternator is charging it whilst its running

[TomD 0]

The battery seems ok - gives 12.5V when the engine is off, and 13.5V when the engine is running (with the multimeter on the battery) My head unit has a volt meter on it - but always seems to show less than that, so I think there's a bad earth somewhere in the cabin.

 

Gave the car a service on a saturday, also gave it a new alternator belt, brand new vag black ignition switch and a new starter motor too - the parts guy new the part number off the top of his head - apparently loads of VWs have a problem with ignition switches!

 

Since then she seems much better, when she did fire up the starter did sound like it was struggling, but now sounds much much better, and the key feels better in the ignition too, more resistance against the key when you turn it.

 

Fingers crossed then - if I keep getting problems I'll try and make up the loom like you! :)

[TomD 0]

Still feeling good - fingers still crossed! :)

 

Have a question though - do any of you have a Toad Ai606?

 

If so can you answer me this?

 

When the engines been running, and you switch the ignition off, does the led on yours remain off until you open the door, at which point it goes orange, then green when you shut the door, then red once the immobiliser is activated (60 secs i think?)

 

For some reason I thought the LED would go green when you take the key out, then go red. Can someone confirm that that isn't supplosed to happen until you open the door?

 

Cheers!

Tom

[swiftkid 1]

not trying to insult your intelligence but i think if you take key out the toad has a countdown until immobiliser kicks in so you have to press unlock button again. it isn't perhaps something as simple as that?

[TomD 0]

Hi.

 

No its not that - the problem with the non starting was when the light was green (i.e. just unlock) but the car still wouldnt start.

 

Question about the alarm is just to check its working properly, for piece of mind (

[waynos 0]

i have an ai606 as it goes, shall check later and post back up ( Strange thing is i bought the toad alarm for mine thinking this was to blame for my non start!)

[waynos 0]

sorry for the delay, when i turn my iginition off the led stays off until i take the key out or open a door. it goes orange then green like you said

[TomD 0]

Cheers for that! So it seems like its ok!

 

One week on...all seems good! So either my started motor was knackered, or the ignition switch i replaced it with was on its way out anyway. My money's on the starter motor... :D

 

Cheers for your help guys! :)

[tobe_k 0]

I know this problem is sorted now, but just out of interest, was your starter wiring a bit dirty or lose? I had exactly the same problem a few times, and i was thinking about purchasing a new starter, but thought id give it a clean first and this sorted it, its not done it now for a couple of months. I wouldnt throw your old starter away as it might still be good.... Just incase you need a spare....

 

As for the alarm, mine is a Toad Ai606 aswell and it arms itself after 30 seconds or so after removing the key from the switch... Im sure the light does its own thing sometimes.. But generally it does as you described.

 

Cheers.

[TomD 0]

No the wiring seemed fine, although wouldnt rule it out...anyway I need to give it back as started motors are exchange so its worth £50! :)

 

Cheers. :D