Fitting 4 branch on G60 - Experience fitting anyone?

[Riley 0]

Ive got a g-werks 4 branch manifold that im after fitting at some stage soon...

 

Now, all the manifold studs/copper squash nuts/washers were all replaced by myself with new ones maybe a couple years ago, but id like to use new nuts/washers again as a matter of course.

 

Will the standard copper squash nuts and washers fit ok? Ive read that some people have used allen bolts and removed the studs from the head thats all.

 

Cheers, Neil.

[dirtytorque 0]

Ive got a g-werks 4 branch manifold that im after fitting at some stage soon...

 

Now, all the manifold studs/copper squash nuts/washers were all replaced by myself with new ones maybe a couple years ago, but id like to use new nuts/washers again as a matter of course.

 

Will the standard copper squash nuts and washers fit ok? Ive read that some people have used allen bolts and removed the studs from the head thats all.

 

Cheers, Neil.

 

No need for allen bolts.

I don't understand why they would do that. :scratch:

[Riley 0]

Cheers mate,

 

I think its just to make things easier? Unsure tbh. Just wondering if having bigger bore runners makes it difficult to fit the OE nuts maybe?

 

Ive always managed easily enough with a 12mm socket but on standard manifolds.

[Critical_Mass 10]

You may want to consider wrapping it before fitting. That is assuming you want to wrap it.

[CTWG60 0]

Mate if your on dodgy ground with your relationship with this car I wouldn't get stuck in to fitting a G-Werks Manifold, they are a bit of a b'stard to fit. I found the best way is to buy lots of those thick exhaust washers. get a grinder on the first one so it sits flat to the manifold flange as they can contact the pipe to flange welds and sit at an angle. Then use more washers so you only need to turn the nuts a few times, rather than 50 times bent over the engine swearing. Or use some good quality stainless allen bolts like G-Werks. I wouldn't want to remove all the existing studs without the head out the car incase one snapped and those allen bolts can round out easily. The proper 12mm exhasut nuts from VW cost a fair few quid but they do last and cope with the heat.

 

Oh yeah then you have to connect the exhaust to it, that's fun too! Oh yeah and make sure you get all the gaskets the right way round! :bad-words: Oh yeah if it runs close to the steering UJ boot use a piece of aluminium with stainless straps around the boot to protect it. The grease inside has a fairly low flash point. Ask me how I know this! :|

 

hth :lol:

[Riley 0]

You may want to consider wrapping it before fitting. That is assuming you want to wrap it.

 

Cheers mate, i plan on having it ceramic coated. :salute:

 

hth :lol:

 

Mucho help :shock: :lol: Cheers mate.

 

I am on dodgy ground with the fecking thing like you say, but the manifold along with a system/cam/nitrous/remap etc was supposed to get done a while ago...And i kinda feel like it just aint finished yet and id love to see what sort of figures it can give as one good point is that the engine is a nice and tight one with real good compression, dosn't use a drop of oil etc.

 

I know what you mean about grinding a washer, can just picture what ya saying with the runners being close to the holes for the studs.

Im not overly keen on using stainless bolts with the diffarent expansion rates between them and the head really.

All the studs.nuts/washers should hopefully be in good order as i replaced them all not many miles back, but id still go for new nuts/washers anyway.

 

One thing im stuck on is how to actually go about fitting it along with a new system. :scratch: If i fit the manifold ill have to drive it to pipewerx very loudly :lol: If i fit it at pipewerx (assuming Ian would let me) i may run into problems etc.

 

Not sure...

[CTWG60 0]

You may want to consider wrapping it before fitting. That is assuming you want to wrap it.

 

Cheers mate, i plan on having it ceramic coated. :salute:

 

hth :lol:

 

Mucho help :shock: :lol: Cheers mate.

 

I am on dodgy ground with the fecking thing like you say, but the manifold along with a system/cam/nitrous/remap etc was supposed to get done a while ago...And i kinda feel like it just aint finished yet and id love to see what sort of figures it can give as one good point is that the engine is a nice and tight one with real good compression, dosn't use a drop of oil etc.

 

I know what you mean about grinding a washer, can just picture what ya saying with the runners being close to the holes for the studs.

Im not overly keen on using stainless bolts with the diffarent expansion rates between them and the head really.

All the studs.nuts/washers should hopefully be in good order as i replaced them all not many miles back, but id still go for new nuts/washers anyway.

 

One thing im stuck on is how to actually go about fitting it along with a new system. :scratch: If i fit the manifold ill have to drive it to pipewerx very loudly :lol: If i fit it at pipewerx (assuming Ian would let me) i may run into problems etc.

 

Not sure...

 

Skip the powder coating, use the money to pay Ian to fit it, he ended up re-fitting mine as I got a gasket backwards and yes I drove over there with the exhaust blowing like a b'stard in rush hour. I'd had enough after struggling all weekend. :mad2:

 

End of the day it's up to you but I can guarantee it ain't no fun fitting them. I'm sure he'd let you do it in the car park then when you get annoyed you can let him finish it. :lol: But if you snap a stud?!?! :nono:

[Riley 0]

Im just on with an interior project at the minute but still wanting to get the manifold/new system fitted.

 

I have sat it loosely on a mates spare 8v head, and it looks like the washers definately want a little grinding :bad-words: But before i go fitting it i was thinking of having it ceramic coated or wrapping it. I keep seeing conflicting thoughts on both...

 

Surely, if the manifold is well built with good welds etc then wrapping it shouldn't be a problem? Im not sure it is though tbh, its rusty so i don't rate the stainless thats been used, its not the best fit either...needs a fair bit of squeezing two primaries together to get them onto the studs.

[CTWG60 0]

I'd Just fit it as it is, ceramic coating used manifold has no guarantees. I think it would only be surface rust and not structural. Wrapping is expensive aswell and a pain to do again no real performance increase or benefit. If your having doubts now though maybe you should look at some other avenues to increase performance.

[Riley 0]

Id just like to decrease temps under the bonnet really, and the stainless obviously give quite a bit more heat off. Was going to 'play' with the inlet manifold too.

 

Its funny you mention other idea's mate, im thinking about going 2.0 by using a 3a or 2e bottom end, more than likely 3a with being short block and no further manifold clearance issues.

 

How do you rate impulse developments as far as balancing etc mate? Id be going full on custom pistons/rods/crank if i do go ahead with it.

[CTWG60 0]

Id just like to decrease temps under the bonnet really, and the stainless obviously give quite a bit more heat off. Was going to 'play' with the inlet manifold too.

 

Its funny you mention other idea's mate, im thinking about going 2.0 by using a 3a or 2e bottom end, more than likely 3a with being short block and no further manifold clearance issues.

 

How do you rate impulse developments as far as balancing etc mate? Id be going full on custom pistons/rods/crank if i do go ahead with it.

 

Impulse are excellent and always have time to talk tech, hence my sig, they're happy to do custom stuff and Adrian is a top bloke, no BS. As for a low compression 3a bottom end, I designed my own! Be interesting to see what you come up with for a design for your rods and pistons.

 

I reckon I could get 2008cc from a PG now with the experience of doing a the 3A and having a good look at a spare PG bottom end with a 92.8mm crank and retain the oil squirters.

[Riley 0]

Cool. 8)

 

Yeah....Im still pondering at the moment. I was going to overbore a 3a block initially (83.5mm forged pistons), but have been thinking about sticking with the pg. Is it your build thread that ive seen on the vortex mate?

 

I was going to ask about a few things such as placing the knock sensor etc...

 

Like i say though, still unsure at the moment. Current (pretty standard) 1800 gives 203.6 @ the flywheel...but ive always wanted to do fancy rebuild.

 

Cheers, Neil.

[CTWG60 0]

This is my thread on VWVortex.

 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3866413&page=1

 

Knock sensor has been moved into a Golf Limited G6016V position.

 

Here you go for 83.5mm low CR 220mm block pistons, most people go for 83mm as the cc difference is only 24cc at the end of the day.

 

http://www.eurospecsport.com/products/c ... istons.htm

 

You can get big BHP without a capacity increase, but if you want the torque to match more cc's is the way to go imho. :shades:

[Riley 0]

Great stuff mate cheers, where is the limited knock sensor position? Does it still use the extension off the block as i believe that if you don't then you need a diffarent knock sensor...

 

Good to have another piston link too, ive been looking for more to compare etc.

 

So far my fave idea were http://www.autotech.com/prod_engine_piston.htm

83.5mm bore and 9:1 CR at $629.95

[CTWG60 0]

Oh yeah I forgot about those, I looked at them initially but wanted to stay with 83 mm cast pistons in the end for daily driving. I like the way those pistons mirror the combustion chamber. I'd like to see the full specs on them first, but yeah they look a good option. Biggest thing with forged pistons is bore clearance, the less the better. From what I have read, I wouldn't want pistons with more then 0.07 mm (0.003") clearance. Saying that though I've never run forged in any car I've owned so no real experience of the problems with forged pistons on a daily basis.

[Riley 0]

Yeah, they do look a nice bit of kit eh mate. 8)

 

According to the site:

 

This alloy, combined with a unique barrel-shaped skirt, allows for incredibly tight piston-to-cylinderwall clearances (0.0025"). This eliminates the oil blow-by problems experienced with other forged piston types, making JE Pistons not only strong and lightweight, but also ideal for street use.

 

What were the cast pistons you used mate? Which engine code were they from? Not the 3A ones are they?

 

Im just weighing up cast VS forged as like you mention, forged may be a bit ott...Using a little oil etc until up to full working temp.

[CTWG60 0]

Yeah, they do look a nice bit of kit eh mate. 8)

 

According to the site:

 

This alloy, combined with a unique barrel-shaped skirt, allows for incredibly tight piston-to-cylinderwall clearances (0.0025"). This eliminates the oil blow-by problems experienced with other forged piston types, making JE Pistons not only strong and lightweight, but also ideal for street use.

 

What were the cast pistons you used mate? Which engine code were they from? Not the 3A ones are they?

 

Im just weighing up cast VS forged as like you mention, forged may be a bit ott...Using a little oil etc until up to full working temp.

 

With cast pistons, you won't get them to run with correct FI CR with standard vw rods (144mm) in a 220mm block, you have to get custom length rods made so it actually cost more than buying some forged jobbies. But you can get really good quality Mahle cast pistons that are design specifically for efficient burn rate of fuel/air with a compression lump to push the gasses toward the spark, which I haven't seen in a 92.8mm crank, 144mm rod forged pistons, which puts me off them.

 

So £350+ for the pistons and then £450-500 for the custom length rods. Your looking at at least £500 to have the block machined and minimally built. I had a few extras done which meant my engine cost about £800 to have built. So it's not cheap. Forged pistons into a 3A would be the cheapest option but as I say I don't know what they are like when it's cold an frosty first thing in the morning. Brrrrr!