Yandards' 16VG60 - Running Report 23 Jul 15

[Alex_G60_Fanatic 0]

on request i am pleased to show Yans car... and regardless of the consequences, I have to say it was a fun drive!

climatronic wiring-Golf from May 01.pdfBVF July 2010 001.jpg[/attachment:yuyu6upi]

2.8l 24v Climatronic system.pdfBVF July 2010 003.jpg[/attachment:yuyu6upi]

 

and Eric to the rescue!

BVF July 2010 008.jpg[/attachment:yuyu6upi]

[Yandards 0]

Cheers Alex (I did ask for them to be put up) :lol: ,

 

Got a quote from a UK supplier of bearings for both main and conrods (Mahle ones) for £50 + VAT and delivery. Not too bad and at least they should be German made items.

[Alex_G60_Fanatic 0]

Cheers Alex (I did ask for them to be put up) :lol: ,

 

Got a quote from a UK supplier of bearings for both main and conrods (Mahle ones) for £50 + VAT and delivery. Not too bad and at least they should be German made items.

 

Any luck with these fella?

[Yandards 0]

Cheers Alex (I did ask for them to be put up) :lol: ,

 

Got a quote from a UK supplier of bearings for both main and conrods (Mahle ones) for £50 + VAT and delivery. Not too bad and at least they should be German made items.

 

Any luck with these fella?

 

Yeah ordered them yesterday..

 

Obviously was pretty pee'd off with the car when I got it home so it has sat in the garage for a couple of weeks and I then went on holiday for 3 weeks. Current plan depending on when the bearings arrive is to get the job done in a weekend so I can keep the build debris down to a minimum. If the bits arrive late next week that would be ideal.

 

I would like to be able to drive it before the gritters take to the roads for the winter so will be aiming to get some miles in as soon as it's rebuilt and subject to some good (11 bar ish) compression figures. If it still won't go then it will down the route of an ABF with stacked head gaskets instead of the KR lump..

[coullstar 0]

Was up your way today and thought Id seen the road I was on before. Turns out it was the one in the first vid you posted a few pages back. Sat having my lunch watching the Tornado's taking off, god I forgotten how loud those things are at take off.

 

Nice today but must be fookin cold in the winter. Any progress yet on the bearings?

[Yandards 0]

Yeah just waiting on the mains coming over from Germany.

 

Been using the nice weather to sort out the garage for the winter, hopefully fixed the leaking roof, painted the floor today and tomorrow its the walls.

 

If it's bit a less gloomy in there I might be more inclined to get in there!

 

You could have come over for a brew with your lunch, I am only down the road from Lossie (strange it being work and all :))

[Yandards 0]

Right,

 

Started stripping it down tonight for a couple of hours, fluids drained, all the various coolant pipes, sensors, fuel lines, wiring, oil lines etc disconnected. It's all ready for the head to be removed but I need another pair of hands to help lifting it off.

 

Plan is to hone the bores in situ, slap enough of it back together to be oil tight to enable compression testing to be carried out and if it's all good then I can strip it back down and replace the bearings.

 

I can't see the point in doing the bearings if I can't get the compression up and if I can't then the engine that originally came out of the car will get stripped down and have all the interals and ancillaries swapped onto it as I know there is nothing wrong with that unit.

 

Want to know one way or the other by the end of the week really, so head off tomorrow night, pistons and rods out and then prep honing, some honing on Wednesday night, rebuild on Thursday and then test by Friday...

[Guest]

but I need another pair of hands to help lifting it off.

There's another pair of hands in the house...

Good luck with it all. Fingers crossed.

[Alex_G60_Fanatic 0]

Want to know one way or the other by the end of the week really, so head off tomorrow night, pistons and rods out and then prep honing, some honing on Wednesday night, rebuild on Thursday and then test by Friday...

 

Busy week mate, I don't envy you.

Good luck and let us know how you get on :salute:

[Jim 2]

Good luck mate. Looking forward to seeing this back on the road and at full potential! :)

[Kempy 0]

cant you lift a head off by your self.. :camp:

[rsgntx 0]

good luck hope it works out!

[Yandards 0]

cant you lift a head off by your self.. :camp:

 

Not with the inlet and exhaust manifolds connected and the ARP studs make it a little harder too :)

 

Judith, there wasn't another pair of hands until later last night so I reached a good stopping point.

 

Jim, I know mate, looking at some other folks numbers I can't wait really, 155lb ft of torque from 2000 rpm to 6000 rpm peaking at around 185lb ft, that's above stock VR6 levels and on other 16vG60s that have the factory manifold fitted.

[Kempy 0]

i see. how come they are still on then

[Yandards 0]

i see. how come they are still on then

 

Because it's quicker than taking them off, you just need another pair of hands to help out with the removal :)

 

It was time to call it a day when I was ready for the head off so it all worked out well really.

[Kempy 0]

i got no mates that like helping.

[Yandards 0]

i got no mates that like helping.

 

My usual car mate is away right now so I got the wife to help out instead!

 

It's off all off now but need to get a bore gauge from work to check the cylinders before I start the honing process. Can't see the point in trying to hone it if I need oversize pistons and if that is the case then I will be swapping the parts over to the other block.

[boost monkey 0]

Hey Yan,

 

long time mate! Sorry to hear you've had issues with this. It has always been one of my favourite threads to watch :cheers:

 

Hope it all gets sorted, and I can appreciate honing bores in situ after my placement year!

[Yandards 0]

In a fit of madness (was sunny out so I thought it was warmer) I ventured into the garage to check my bores.

 

After setting my bore gauge to 81.01mm using my digital vernier calipers and allowing for the bore gauge to travel in both directions (high and low) it was onto the cylinders.

 

All 4 have come back as being within .01mm of design tolerance (81.01mm) you are allowed up to 0.08mm max until you need to go oversize on the block so that's all good so far.

 

I then started honing no. 4 (the bore with least compression), until my bore honer broke, cheapo clark rubbish, a quick trip to Halfords revealed they don't have them on the shelf anymore so I have ordered a replacement. No. 4 was coming up very nicely prior to the tool failure, a quick check with the bore gauge shows around 0.03mm of material removed from design specification (that 81.01mm figure) with a few scores still in the middle of the bore.

 

I expect that all 4 cylinders will come up ok and without me having to consider going oversize on the block (which I wouldn't have done as I have a spare KR engine). Subject to a sucessful compression test it will be strip down and replace all the bearings, I need to change the gearbox for my new ASD box with G60 3rd and 4th anyway so dropping the crank is easy enough.

 

It's then going to be a re-assemble and compression test to see if it's fixed, should be getting around the 12 bar mark instead of the 9 bar it was doing.

[Jim 2]

Glad to hear you've found some motivation to start looking at getting this back on the road again mate!

[Philuk 0]

sounds good mate! glasd your starting on with it again!

[Yandards 0]

Spent the day in the garage going nuts with my new honing tool, had to stop as I have run out of sandstone on a couple of the legs so need some new ones.

 

Got some pictures of the bore gauging process for those that are interested :sleeping:

 

First of all as I mentioned previously the nominal bore size for a 1.8l block (G60 or 16V) is 81.01mm, the best way to set the dial bore gauge up is with a metal ring which is exactly 81.01mm - I don't have one so I set my digital calipers to 81.01mm instead. To ensure that you have movement of the dial gauge both higher and lower you need to set it up so you have a bit of movement already taken up, so as my bore gauge has a '1' unit counter with a range of 0-3 I set that to '1' and then adjusted the scale on the dial to read '0' (the outer ring on the dial gauge moves along you to set 0 etc).

 

With this all set up I can now measure the bore size at various points, the reason you use a dial gauge for this job is that you can find the narrowest point by watching the dial while you tilt the bore gauge; so you tilt the gauge slowly in one direction and the gauge will move towards 0, when it hits the narrowest point of the bore it will tend to hang a little then it will start moving 'up' again. Using this technique you ensure you are measuring accross the shortest distance of the bore.

 

On taking some fresh measurments today 2 and 3 were within 0.02mm with bore bores oval shapped, the oval was widest on the front to back measurement, this is to be expected given the rotation of the crankshaft and the effect it has on the bore wear. 1 and 4 were worse than 2 and 3 coming in at 0.04mm again with the oval shape bore profile on the front to back. I was not worried about this as the workshop manual gives you up to 0.08mm variation in bore readings per cylinder so even my worst ones were only at 50% of the tolerance.

 

Despite this I still wanted to try to get the bores back to being as close to a true circle as I could manage, this is where the bore honing tool comes into play - (wiki article on why honing produces a 'true' cylinder here) the tool will bring my back closer to a true (perfectly round) cylinder. The other function of honing is to ensure that you get good compression and the piston rings bed into the cylinder walls well giving good compression; my original problem.

 

Next up was to actually do some honing, engine oil was used as a lubricant, the bores were wiped over with oil prior to introducing the honing tool. Then it was simply a case of maintaining low RPM on the drill and continually moving the honing tool up and down the bores, as you can see from the photos of before and after there is a much rougher looking surface. Unfortunately I ran out of material on the honing tool before I finished; although 2 and 3 are now within 0.01mm variation along the height of the bore with it back to being a true circle again. 1 and 4 will need more work as soon as I get some more honing stones.

 

The light marks in the photos of after are where the dial bore gauge has been used, I will give them a final hone prior to rebuild.

[coullstar 0]

Good work. Used these a few times at work a while ago but not to this sort of tolerance. One thing that I was never quite sure on was how this gets rid of the bore ovality as the legs of the tool are spring loaded. Surely all its doing is taking material away from all round the bore or is it down to the smaller OD pushing the tool in against the spring harder and thus taking more material away from that area?

[Toad 0]

Good to see you cracking on with it Yan. Fancy a go at something more like this myself now. :)

[boost monkey 0]

0.01mm is ~ 0.4 thousandths of an inch. Great to see some precision work being done. Bores look much better afterwards!

 

I'm surprised that the honing tool wore down so quick. What is the material on the tool made from?