The Forced Induction VR6 thread

[coullstar 0]

Ive had that a couple of times when on track. I just assumed it was a small bit of oil. Remember it doesnt take a lot of oil to make a lot of smoke.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

My VRT engines have never smoked, so I would mention it to Vince tbh. Is your crank breather plumbed back into the intake? Did you over fill the sump?

 

If not that then it could be valve guides/seals or turbo oil seals. Keep an eye on the oil level. I know you've only just had it done etc but I'm just listing the possible causes, not trying to imply faulty workmanship or parts!

 

My hunch is turbo oil seals. My old 16V Turbo used to have a crummy old T25 on it and that used to blow a bit of oil smoke out the back after decceleration. The engine itself was sound.

 

Have a chat with uncle Vince.

 

---------- Post added at 04:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:45 PM ----------

 

Ive had that a couple of times when on track. I just assumed it was a small bit of oil. Remember it doesnt take a lot of oil to make a lot of smoke.

 

Indeed, but smoking for a mile is a little extreme. A little puff can be ignored, but a big stream of smoke for that length of time is defo a problem imo.

[poll250 0]

Thanks for the replies as usual guys.

 

The breather is plumbed back into the intake, something that I was a little worried about originally, as it did get quite oily in the intake/throttle body before the Turbo went on.

 

I haven't checked since it's been fitted as I didn't want to ruin any good seals upon refitting! (I know there are no leaks now, but I have a habit of overtightening things when reassembling without a torque wrench!)

 

I'll check the oil and intake track to see if I can see anything.

[coullstar 0]

Ah missed the bit about doing it for a mile or so. Yeah mine only had a slight puff and has never done it since. You dont want to see this!!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

No that /\ is bad, lol!

 

OK Andrew, 2 things:

 

1) Get a catch can. I recommend the 42Draft Designs catch can. http://www.42draftdesigns.com/categories/products/catchcans.html I have the 'Stealth' can and it's superb quality.

 

You may have overfilled the sump in which case the excess oil can easily find it's way out of the sump via the breather. You can confirm that by looking at the cold side of the turbo for oiliness.

 

2) If your turbo oil is draining via the sump, that can sometimes cause smoking. At high revs, the oil pressure is high and sometimes the oil can back up, some of which finds it's way through the seals. This is why on my engine I did the Schimmel method of oil draining via the block, above the oil pan. The Garrett GTxxxxR turbos seem good at resisting this (tighter seals maybe?) but some journal bearing turbos can be a bit smokey in that condition.

 

T'is just guesswork at the mo. I don't want Vince getting upset with me for incinuating it's his workmanship at fault :lol:

[VR6Joni 0]

Just browsing and came across this interesting way to control boost:

 

http://www.900aero.com/

 

Go to Tech-APC Theory

 

Parts can be had from the bay for peanuts.

 

Just thought it was a novel idea and could easily be transplanted to give it a go.

[bradvr6 0]

OK guys, this may be a long story but bear with me.....

 

A couple of weeks ago, the headgasket went on the VR and has been sat on the drive whilst I've been wondering what to do with it. It's the second time in 2 years that it's happened and I'm reluctant to have it fixed again due to cost. A few years ago, I bought a used turbo kit which had been fitted to a MK3 VR6 Golf and has been lying around in my garage whilst I cracked on with the interior, which is now completed.

 

As I need to replace the headgasket, I figured now would be a good time to crack on down the turbo route. I'm planning to do all the work myself but I'm not a mechanic by any means and would like as much info from the guys in the know as possible.

 

The kit itself is an oldschool setup using a Rising Rate Fuel Pressure Regulator and ran off the standard ECU. I assume he used the standard headgasket too as he only ran at a maximum of 6psi. I'm planning to strip bits from the kit that I need, do away with the RRFPR and add everything else as I go along. My goal is to achieve around 300bhp and to keep costs to an absolute minimum with a view to expaning the setup futher down the line. I still use the car daily (well, I did should I say) and I want to keep as much of the stock items if I can such as stock inlet manifold and gearbox etc.

 

Here is what I have at present:

 

Garrett T3 Turbo

Exhaust manifold

Dump Valve

RRFPR

Downpipe

Oil feed lines

Boost Guages

Intercooler (the small letterbox type)

Pipework

 

I've noticed that there is no wastegate and what looks like a lambda sensor attached to the flange on the exhaust manifold in it's place???

 

Any advice on what I need to complete the kit would be really appreciated and where to find the parts (UK if possible). As I said before, I'm no mechanic so it's going to be steep learning curve for me.

 

Before deciding on doing this, I toyed with the idea of a 20vt swap....but I want to have the option to widen the boundries at some point....oh, and I just can't bear to drive it without that VR purrr!!! :)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

What make / model RRFRP is it? That's exactly how I ran my first turbo setup and it was actually pretty bloody good to be fair.

 

I used a walbro GSS-340 (255lh) in-tank pump and a Begi RRFPR set to 10:1 rise rate. 8 psi (GT30R), head spacer, ARP bolts, chargecooler and that was about it. Standard mangement, standard injectors. It absolutely flew for such a basic setup and the fuelling was c0ck on lambda 1 on the cruise and in the 12s in boost.

 

People get snobby about that setup and insist that standalones or a remap is the only way to do it, but in all honesty I've done that route as well and the cheap way felt just as good to me. It's just that you are relying on the knock sensors a little *too* much and you absolutely cannot afford any massive boost spikes and the intercooler must be a good, efficient one.

 

Some folk think injectors don't work past 85% duty but bar a few Delphi injectors (70psi max) that's cobblers. Stock VR6 injectors I've had working at 100+ psi no problem an the fuel flow is there too. If it wasn't, the motor would melt into a steaming pile, simple as!

 

If you want to do it the 'proper' way, prepare for some big bills....

 

You will also need a Voltage clamp to stop the MAF max'ing out - http://www.splitsec.com/products/SignalClamps.htm

[bradvr6 0]

Cheers for the advice, really appreciate it! It all seems kinda daunting at the moment but I'm kinda getting a good picture of what to expect when I get stuck in.

 

I've no idea what make the RRFPR is as there are no markings on it. I've attached a pic of it if this is any use...The guy I bought it off said the setup was making 260bhp so I assumed I would have to make a few changes to get up to 300.

 

I'm definately going to upgrade the cooling and go for a chargecooler rather than the intercooler. Super impressive system, not just on the cooling side but it just seems neat, tidy and stealthy. Have you had any experience with the barrel type coolers at all?

 

The thing that got me started on upgrading the kit from the RRFPR was this: http://www.c2motorsports.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=130&category_id=110&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=58

 

I came across this the other day and for the price it looks really good. It's supposed to be good for 300bhp (which is exactly what I'm aiming for) and uses the standard FPR and MAF. So many options to consider, just can't quite decide. Thanks for the tip about the Voltage clamp too!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

This is the FMU I used - http://www.bellengineering.net/product_info.php?cPath=7_76&products_id=4 and it was really good!

 

C2 mention being tired of adjusting the FMU and it still not performing, I only set mine up the once and it was fine :D If you were looing to do a remap I would rather give my money to Vince at Stealth Racing than C2 to be honest. And yeah that route retains the MAF etc but you also need bigger injectors and a fuel pump.

 

Yeah I've seen those Barrell chargecoolers and yeah they're pretty good!

[bradvr6 0]

Well in that case, I think I will stick to the RRFPR route for now. Stealth isn't too far away so if I can get things up and running, I can always drive down and get Vinces' thoughts on bringing it up to the next level. It will also free up some cash to uprate a few other bits and pieces and tidy up the bay as I want the install to be as clean as possible.

 

When you did yours for the first time, did you do the headwork yourself and what kind of experience did you have at the time? I'm pretty new to all of this but I like a challenge. Is there a head spacer you would recommend as I've seen a few different types. Am I right in thinking that some spacers come in 3 pieces?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Blimey, it was nearly 5 years ago I did my first turbo engine but most of what you need to know is here - http://www.vr6oc.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?139931

 

Yeah if you decide to go down the remap route, Vince is your man! He can also sort you out with some parts such as spacers etc as he does VR6 Turbo installs also. The spacer is stainless steel then you use a VW head gasket (3 piece) to sandwich it with. You just bin the middle bit of the VW gasket and use the 2 outer layers on your spacer. It's easy to whip the head off and plonk that on tbh!

[bradvr6 0]

That's great thanks! Just had a read through the first few pages and looks almost exactly the model I want to follow. Got some clearing out in the garage to do before I can make a start but hopefully I'll be ready to go soon once I source the rest of the bits. Might be back to pick your brains again if I get stuck if that 's ok.

 

Cheers again for the advice and links!!!

[bradvr6 0]

Hi Chaps,

 

As I mentioned before, I bought a basic used turbo kit a while back and I've been adding to it with some nice new bits. Got the Schimmel log on it's way (cheers to emu for that!) and now I'm turning my attention to the turbocharger.

 

The charger that came with the kit looks as though it came off an escort cossy. No one is quite sure exactly what it is or weather it will be up to the job. I'm looking to make a reliable (non tyre shredding) 300bhp but I'm not sure this turbo will be up to the job (see attached pics).

 

If I decide to start a fresh, what would you guys recommend as a good starting point? I was thinking the Garrett T04E with 0.82 housing...???

[VR6Joni 0]

Bit of turbo goodness, check out the new Garret GTX series.

[bradvr6 0]

Yeah, those bad boys are the biz...sadly out of my price range though :( . I'm only looking to run around 300bhp to start so trying to find a good intermediate unit which will give me a bit of scope later on down the line.

[bradvr6 0]

Anyone have any ideas on this? Still unable to find any details what so ever.

 

The numbers on the label are 7701351505 and YKR0328W. When I type the part number into the Garrett search, the first 5 numbers are found but then disappear after that. The only Garrett turbo I can find which start with 77013 are for the Renault 5 GT which I think is a T2 or T25 turbo. This just looks a little too big to be one of those.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

That turbo is way to small for a VR6. As you say, a 0.82 T04E is the smallest I would consider personally.

 

You say only want 300hp but with all due respect, forget that number and focus on the torque instead. That cossie turbo will probably spool at 1800-2000rpm, make a huge lump of torque that will probably destroy 3rd gear and then be out of puff by 4000rpm and massively raise your Exhaust gas temps to defcon 5 levels.

 

Bear in mind turbos are the metaphorical equivalent of sticking your thumb over the end of a hose. If the restriction is too great, the pressure has to go somewhere. i.e. back where it came from - into the cylinders. I've seen a poorly designed turbo kit on an Audi S3 bend the conrods because the exhaust gases couldn't escape fast enough.

 

Anyway, for R32 turbo fans - check out this super sexy 24V intake, with built in chargecooler and best news of all, it's slightly shallower than stock runner profile means it'll fit in a Corrado! - http://www.hpamotorsport.com/20ATS-news.htm

[VR6Joni 0]

That HPA manifold is genius for simplification of pipework purposes, I dred to think what the price is though. I do wonder what HP cooling capacity it has though, plenty for us 2wd car owners I would have thought.

Next purchase or what Kev?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

It'll be around $2000 easily I reckon, maybe more!! Fitting that intake and a Borg Warner turbo, running the same boost apparently makes 25hp & ftlb more, with mega throttle response. I do wonder about that ally intake wicking heat out of the head though but I'm sure they've thoroughly tested it.

 

As a company I love their OEM+ approach. You would think VW made that intake at first glance!

 

 

 

 

 

They even make sure their exhaust manifold is too banks of 3 so that they can run twin lambda, as per stock.

 

 

 

As lovely as the stuff is it's a bit too expensive for me, but that intake does solve a long standing problem with boosted 24V Corrados though!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

The HPA should defo fit in the Corrado as it's runner profile is more compact than the plastic intake....

 

[KADVR6 0]

The HPA should defo fit in the Corrado as it's runner profile is more compact than the plastic intake....

 

 

looks perfect to me kev, so you could sell the r32 manifold, your chargecooler, your schimmel short runner and pipework, and get this bad boy fitted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you bought it yet lol

[Kevin Bacon 5]

They haven't announced pricing yet mate as it's currently part of a turbo kit, but they said it will be offered on it's own very soon!

[Pat_McCrotch 0]

Already planning to uprate I see Kev :grin:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Too right :D Got the turbo and standalone and the R32 engine's in (as you well know, lol!), so I just need a couple of manifolds :D