Faster than a Golf R32??? !!!

[BigTartanJudge 0]

Yes Dazzyvr6, I have heard of secondhand parts and DIY fitting funnily enough.

 

Fine, I still maintain there is no way you'll get all those parts (whether you pay the labour yourself to fit them or not) for £2000 or under new and you would be damned lucky to get them secondhand for that money either. Those parts (new) add up to at least £3000 alone without fitting.

 

New (Min) Secondhand (Average)

 

Schrick £1300 (£750-£1000)

Cams £500 (£350)

CAI £150 (£80)

BB TB £250 (£100)

Remap £450 (£250 (bare ECU)

Exhaust £350 (£150)

 

Total £3000 £1830

 

TBH, my original point I was going to make was that I reckon a 25-30BHP increase for £2000-£3000 is pretty poor. IMO better with Stage 1 turbo or supercharger kit (70BHP increase for same money). I just wanted to know what this guy had done to his NA VR6 to give a claimed 240BHP....

 

Cheers

[bcstudent 0]

And yes bcstudent, that's what I thought, hence why I said "I take it it's turbo'd", because he mentioned "my K-Tec turbo'd" but also wanted to confirm whether Clio 182 or Renault 5 GTT....so don't need to be a detective thanks.

The guy never mentioned a Renault 5 GTT so you might just as well have asked him if he was talking about an Escort Cosworth. You, my good fellow, are far too defensive in the face of a bit of light-hearted piss taking :)

[BigTartanJudge 0]

Being that K-Tec racing built their reputation around building tuned and modified R5 GTT's in the first place back in the day, I think it was a pertinent question tbh, but this is OT so back to the original thread I think

[bcstudent 0]

I just wanted to know what this guy had done to his NA VR6 to give a claimed 240BHP....

To be fair, I'd like some clarity there also.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Forget the Schrick for power, it's designed for torque. Hogging out the head and wilder cams is for power. StormVR6's car makes 209hp and 223lb/ft with just the Shrick, AmD throttle and remap. On average, a decent VR will make 225-230hp and the same torque with the Schrick/VSR, 268 cams, AmD throttle and remap. If you want more than that, you need to bore and stroke it or fit a turbo/supercharger.

 

The 2.9 was restricted deliberately to less than 200hp as in the mid 90s, going over 200hp bumped up the insurane a lot in Germany. The early Merc Kompressors and the E36 328i are both under 200hp aswell for the same reason, and all 3 are capable of a lot more than 200hp with simple mods. The VW cup racer VR6 engines gave 225hp from the factory, guaranteed, with no clever manifolds.

 

The VSR was on the original spec sheet for the VR anyway, but they abandoned it, but 225 is about what the VR should have made from the factory, hence getting that easily with the afore mentioned mods.

 

It's expensive though and supercharging is better value, bang for buck.

[BigTartanJudge 0]

All what I said in my previous posts on this topic :D

 

I rest my case 8)

 

Cheers

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Sure. I just wanted to add my tuppence worth ;-)

 

240bhp N/A is achievable with a Stage 2 head, 3.0 or 3.1 block and the afore mentioned parts.

[bcstudent 0]

What's the betting matey comes back and says "yeah, that's what I had...all that lot on a 3.1..."?

[samm_cvr6 0]

If you do a search on the forum, you will see that fast cams are available on the VR for around £250, so forgetting the shrick, I still reckon I could get my VR up to 220bhp for about £900! maybe not taking to AMD tho...

[Kevin Bacon 5]

What's the betting matey comes back and says "yeah, that's what I had...all that lot on a 3.1..."?

 

Must have missed that thread but it wouldn't surprise me. You can probably get 240 from a 2.8/2.9 with a stage 3 head with narrow shaft titanium valves, 276 cams, solid lifters and limiter raised to 7,500 to 8000rpm.

[samm_cvr6 0]

yea, well he has probably just read that and will say that! how convenient ay! but have to agree, once you spend over 2k, has to make more sense to just put a charger on....

[Kevin Bacon 5]

FI on the VR brings about it's own set of headaches and costs though as I can testify! Worth it though. It's better for torque too. 'All motor' VRs as the Americans call them, can be a bit too top endy and not good street motors.

[veeDuB_Rado 0]

So what is the most you can get out of a VR6 for money (not thousands)

I know that there was that vr6 on eBay not long ago pushing 290bhp. For me 190-225 from a 2.9l engine is low,as much as i love corrados i feel that is true.

Im not very engine literate but why can a 2.0 coss push out a hell of a lot more than a 2.9 to bored up 3.1 vr6???

 

(and i dont even know what bored means lol, or how you do it!)

[vr6storm 0]

there's a fella up near aberdeen who converted a rallye into a vr6 turbo rallye.....pushes out over 300bhp if not close to 400bhp.............i cant remember off-hand

[BigTartanJudge 0]

Em,

 

Boring out engine just means increasing capacity or displacement e.g. from 2.9L to 3.1L. Not sure on exact figures but would have said 260-280BHP (??) (without forced induction) using all mentioned above mods and increasing displacement. Still going to cost helluva lot of cash tho and as mentioned already, turbo or supercharging much better value. Cossie's are 2.0L twin cam 16V with a large turbo as standard (escort around 225BHP as standard) hence why the extra power from "just" a 2L.

 

Cheers

 

PS. That VR6 turbo Rallye mentioned above built by Stealth Racing has

> 410BHP, couldn't be mapped over 350BHP IIRC on rollers, needed to be done with laptop on road, see pic

[veeDuB_Rado 0]

 

Boring out engine just means increasing capacity or displacement e.g. from 2.9L to 3.1L.

 

yea lol i undersatand that, but how do you make a 2900cc into a 3100cc, and how does it work

 

Sorry for asking, but i gotta learn somewhere

[samm_cvr6 0]

Are you referring to 2.0 FI Cossie lumps? because FI is a whole different kettle of fish regarding power outputs to N/A.

With the VR, it is not a high bhp, by todays standards anyway, but compared to V6 lumps of the time like the Vauxhall/Ford, it ain't bad at all. And remember it is also an older 2v per cylinder jobbie, probably more similar to a TVR engine in that sense, none of this BI VANOS type technology you would see on an M3.

And don't get too bogged down with power, as torque and how it is produced is equally important, sure a VTEC/VVTI will have high power, but only best used on a track, and trade off is torque lower down.

[gradeAfailure 0]

veeDuB_Rado, have a look here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_tuning - should explain pretty much most of it!

[mr.ots 10]

"yea lol i undersatand that, but how do you make a 2900cc into a 3100cc, and how does it work"

 

VeeDub_Rado, The displacement of an engine (CC, cubic capacity, litres etc.), is. the amount of volume/area of all the cylinders. This is determined by the stroke (the distance the piston moves from the bottom to the top of the cylinder, multiplied by the bore (the the area within the circumfrence of the cylinder occupied by the piston).

 

If you increase the bore (this is done by special machinery which bores out the cylinder to a larger circumfrence) then the overall capacity of the cyliners is increased.

 

Hope that makes sense. :)

[mr.ots 10]

You managed to post that while I was writing mine gradeAfailure. Wish you would have beat me to it and saved me some time :roll:

[BigTartanJudge 0]

Displacement

 

http://www.answers.com/topic/engine-displacement

 

Bore = diameter of cylinder and stroke = length of cylinder

 

Increasing engine displacement means using oversized pistons e.g from 2.9L to 3.0L or e.g 2.9L to 3.1L using "bore and stroke" kit normally (includes a "long-throw" new crankshaft)

 

Hope this helps

[veeDuB_Rado 0]

Bl**dy hell..youve really explained it well guys, i do understand now. Thanks a million!

 

**goes off to tell mates**

[Kevin Bacon 5]

For me 190-225 from a 2.9l engine is low

 

It sound low for the capacity, but 190 is enough for a sub 7 second 0-60 and 145 mph. 225 is only 6hp less than the current BMW 330Ci, which is a 3.0 24V with variable timing and inlet. The VR is only 2 valvers per cylinder, no variable timing or inlet and ancient!

 

Working out an engine's power & torque can be done mathematically way before even getting the tools out and it's what VW configured the VR to produce. Any manufacturer can make a massively powerful engine and VW more than most with their technology, but it has to sell to the masses and be reliable, and high power costs bundles to design and implement. The Veyron is a classic case! Harnessing and cooling 1050hp has taken years to develop and several hundred millions to build....which is why it costs a million Euros to buy! I'll have 3 please

[vr6storm 0]

 

PS. That VR6 turbo Rallye mentioned above built by Stealth Racing has

> 410BHP, couldn't be mapped over 350BHP IIRC on rollers, needed to be done with laptop on road, see pic

 

 

pretty sure Dave M (VR6T on eastside)only used stealth for the mapping of it.......AFAIK he built the engine not stealth

[BigTartanJudge 0]

Aye, fair enough, not sure for definite if Stealth built the motor only that they mapped it for sure,

 

Cheers