Please help my g60 - Err where were we? Page 42

[Riley 0]

Cheers guys...I can appreciate its been hard to follow the longest running problem in automotive history :lol:

 

I can't really stretch to a new lump at the moment..im in quite a bit of debt until my house sells and to be honest im pretty sure the block is a damn good one...

Evidence: :D

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SKByptO_Wss

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=2-D28Y7BJck

 

I did have the head off and reseated the valves/new stem seals etc etc and it all looked propper mint :?

Ive done compression tests and...have an average of the below on all four pots.

 

Im pretty sure it starts to happen as the car gets warm aye... :(

I may have an old bts knocking about somewhere...ill try that trick if so :)

 

Cheers guys.

 

Neil.

[Riley 0]

Something else i may try...Snip the lambda signal wire right up at the ecu?

 

Not something i really want to do...but it was suggested by a friend of a friend,to see if it gives an instant cure which then points to a problem in the lambda loom on the car iirc.

 

Its just confusing the hell out of me...is it fuel or leccy related :?

Do i need red tops? :?

Do i need a 3.5bar fpr? :?

 

I dunno...But one thing i do know is that it won't get to me or the valver on 45 carbs will go in there to wake it up a bit!

[Riley 0]

Any response on the above? :)

 

I got some video...You will have to excuse the lack of lighting on the boost gauge :oops: turning the volume up will help too.

 

Video 1 - Showing ticking over from cold, and showing vac on mfa.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=uiYVXnAh0mA

 

Video 2 - Just as i move away from the boost gauge you will hear the car sneeze...once,twice and a third time.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=rdGupfF1tI0

 

Video 3 - Showing it up on the boost gauge, 17 seconds in.

Also around 27 seconds you may hear it rev differently?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4CIXoC2djrg

 

After this...

I disconnected the bts and reconnected it to a cold one sat on the slam panel.

The tickover rose and it seemed to rev more responsively,and no popping.

I reconnected to the bts on the rad pipe, i revved it by hand and it popped.

 

What we reckon? :)

Neil.

[ninoG60 0]

my money is on fuel, if there was a way of testing it by putting red top injectors on and then seeing how it ran, seems strange that it disappears when wot is taped shut, but the bts issue is kinda steering towards it too, when its connected to the bts off the car , ie resing on the slam panel, does it mean that it assumes the car is cold and runs off a different map, ie chucking more fuel in until it warms up and then it goes into a different map setting?

Need a willing donator of some red tops to prove my theory ( wrong or right)

It aint getting to you , which is good, but its bugging the heck outta me!

[mrbeige 0]

does it mean that it assumes the car is cold and runs off a different map, ie chucking more fuel in until it warms up and then it goes into a different map setting?

 

It wont necessarily be a different map, but will be running warm-up fuel enrichment. In most ECUs, the enrichment is a multiplier applied to the standard map.

[flusted 0]

This is frustrating me reading this.

 

Mine done exactly the same, tape the switch, cures it, as i stated before, mine was fixed once i added red tops and different fuel pressure reg.

Its without a doubt running to lean causing the popping up through the inlet, the ecu ignores lamda for first few minutes (mine also drove fine then) but as soon as it went to lambda reading it was too lean.

Have you had c/o checked?

Still think fuel pressure needs testing

[Riley 0]

Fuel pressure was tested a while ago mate,all checked out fine.

c/o also checks out fine...Cant remember the figures now,but i got them at mot time and they were spot on.

My mates mk2 g60 conversion showed to be running leaner at his mot and its all good.

 

More video's...hope they help :(

 

Video 1:

Showing fluctuating voltage at lambda on ecu plug...And then stable once i hold the WOT switch closed.

And fluctuating once i let go again...Notice how it revs a lot slower/less responsively than video 2 below.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=JiUTY7F32vk

 

Video 2:

Connected to a cold BTS,see how it revs a lot more cleanly,and no popping.The BTS is maybe the fourth or fifth one ive tried,its a new v.a.g one.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=abpd39YRJOk

 

Neil. :( :)

[boost monkey 0]

Thinking about it for like 2 mins could it not be overfuelling?

 

That would explain the smoke and the hesistancy to rev.

 

Also, the boost pressure spiking so quickly makes me think that perhaps the charger isn't spinning freely: perhaps it's getting 'stuck' and then the load from the belt and pulley is causing it to kind of leap to boost, causing your guage to spike... I'm sorry this isn't a very technical explanation.

 

^^ if this was true, that would coincide with the car overfuelling to being with (due to charger not providing air at the stoich. ratio) and then do the whole spiking thing, balancing out the AFR.

 

 

Of course I don't know the specifics of the G-lader and whether those things are entirely possible but it's always good to have more engineers working on something.

 

:?

[mrbeige 0]

Sounds like a dodgey lambda to me! At warm up the lambda will not be running closed loop as it is soo far away from the engine that it requires heating to function correctly. During the warm up cycle the lambda sensor has a heater in it. So once the engine gets above the certain temp the lambda then runs in closed loop at idle. If the lambda sensor isn't warm enough or the the oxygen sensing capability of it is just buggered, then the ECU will see an incorrect signal that it will then adjust the fuel accordingly.

 

Did you say you had a mate with a G60? Might be worth swapping over the lambda sensor and see what happens??

[dirtytorque 0]

hell.. you changed everything else.

may as well try another lambda. :)

 

If that dosn't work hit the car with a hammer and see if that helps. :)

 

sorry but you have to larf or else you'll cry.

[Riley 0]

Its a new bosch lambda guys,and the problem is still there with the lambda unplugged.(This was sussed around 12 months ago)

I snipped the lambda wire today too,to see if it stops a possible problem in the loom...still the same.

 

boost monkey,Im not sure meself...sounds possible? Although if it was overfuelling,surely holding the WOT switch closed would make things worse? (unless there is a wiring problem on the lamda side somehow?)

 

Bump for more feedback on the vids!

 

Cheers,Neil. :)

[mrbeige 0]

Its a new bosch lambda guys,and the problem is still there with the lambda unplugged.(This was sussed around 12 months ago)

I snipped the lambda wire today too,to see if it stops a possible problem in the loom...still the same.

 

boost monkey,Im not sure meself...sounds possible? Although if it was overfuelling,surely holding the WOT switch closed would make things worse? (unless there is a wiring problem on the lamda side somehow?)

 

Bump for more feedback on the vids!

 

Cheers,Neil. :)

Neil, have you tried a standard ECU? I'm assuming you have. Also are there any faults up on VAG-com?

[Riley 0]

Aye,Ive tried various pocoyo,i mean Stu :lol:

Standard ecu,ecu with a superchip,ecu with another sns chip...And a couple of different ecu's off a mates car etc.

The problem has been there the whole time :(

 

Haven't tried vag.com as it only works for the abs,but i did do a flash test of the original ecu a good while ago now,can't remember what came up but it was a few things - lambda,bts,and a couple of others.

 

Neil.

[Supercharged 2]

So where does the heater current for the lambda come from??

 

Just wondering if there is a relay or control box or is it from the ECU??

[Riley 0]

Its a while since i looked,but from what i remember...

 

The two wires on the car side of the loom go like this:

 

Brown runs from plug across bulk head to a junction with other earths,then splits to ecu and negative on battery.

 

Red/White runs from plug to back of fuse box where it then runs back to the fuel pump?

 

Whats your thinking mate? :) And can anyone confirm that the wiring sounds correct?

 

Neil.

[dirtytorque 0]

So where does the heater current for the lambda come from??

 

Just wondering if there is a relay or control box or is it from the ECU??

 

 

i'm pretty sure it comes direct from the ECU .. i'll d'ble check 2nite.

[Riley 0]

That would be cool mate. :)

 

I just feckingwell missed a cheap knock sensor on ebay...Thought it may be worth a try,feck all else seems to have worked :lol:

[ninoG60 0]

I dont run a lambda sensor on mine and its fine , emissions were 0.19 Co and Hydrocarbons were 20 PPM

I still think its fuelling, but cant pinpoint it to where the problem lies

it may not bug you , but it does me! :(

[Riley 0]

Ive forgotten where im at with this!

 

Nobody anymore idea's? :(

 

Just please,please don't suggest sommet ive already tried...I will pull my hair out :lol:

 

Just for potatonet, the problem is there whether the lambda is plugged in or not :)

[Riley 0]

So where does the heater current for the lambda come from??

 

Just wondering if there is a relay or control box or is it from the ECU??

 

i'm pretty sure it comes direct from the ECU .. i'll d'ble check 2nite.

 

Any update on that?

 

Neil. :)

[flusted 0]

my heater wire wasnt working, i added a ignition live from the coil to it

[dirtytorque 0]

So where does the heater current for the lambda come from??

 

Just wondering if there is a relay or control box or is it from the ECU??

 

i'm pretty sure it comes direct from the ECU .. i'll d'ble check 2nite.

 

Any update on that?

 

Neil. :)

 

tbh

I just can't work it out. :scratch:

 

One end of the heated element goes to current track 5,the other goes to current track 68.

current track 68.

 

If anyone else with the bentley or any other secret document wants to have a stab i'd be interested in knowing myself.

 

 

Riley,whats the best way of attacking changing the lambda?

cheers.

[junkie 0]

Riley,whats the best way of attacking changing the lambda?

cheers.

 

Early night

Cup of coffee

Bacon and egg sandwich (poss switch to ham and cheese or have that later on)

Couple of crafty fags

 

Then get stuck in :lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I like cheese

[Riley 0]

I like steak pies from oddie's :D

 

I managed to change it easily enough mate...Jack car up at front right, shove a stand under sill.

 

Get under there with the spanner and bob is bills best friend. :D I know they can tend to be very tight sometimes, so using something like the syuff that frost sell which you spray on may help (forgot name of it)

 

Neil.

 

ps:How much voltage should there be at the lambda heater wire and when?

:shock:

[flusted 0]

there should be 12v ignition live on it