help rory

[funky 0]

this came as a pm from rory

Was wondering if you could help with a quick urgent problem as your online please?

 

Just had a service 350 miles ago at a Colebrook & Burgess a few weeks back and while driving around today a spark plug has jumped out of its hole taking all the threads with it . As hard as i try the plug wont bite into the hole again without blowing straight out.

 

Will they fix it for me at no charge as i think the may have over/under tightened it? Or what? Will they retap the head and put in a bigger plug? Or will they want to replace the whole head?

 

Please help

Rory

[funky 0]

i would take it back to see the garage but if its a g60 then the plugs are not always included in a service so no come back if they hadnt fitted them

 

as far as the head is concerned they will drill out the hole fit a helicoil and refit the sparkplug quite a simple process

hth funky

[Rory 0]

Thanks funky Its a VR6 and the plugs were not changed but could they have checked them and retightened them?

 

What about aluminium filings the chamber? Wont the head need to come off?

 

Seems a bit of a coincidence that it was serviced 3 months before the plug jumppeed out

[Andi 2,147,483,647]

Seems a bit of a coincidence that it was serviced 3 months before the plug jumppeed out

 

3 days, maybe, but 3 months for a service-related problem to occur is quite a while!

You may find they say it has nothing to do with the service and it was just coincidence.

[Rory 0]

Seems a bit of a coincidence that it was serviced 3 months before the plug jumppeed out

 

3 days, maybe, but 3 months for a service-related problem to occur is quite a while!

You may find they say it has nothing to do with the service and it was just coincidence.

 

sorry meant to say 3 weeks :oops: . Was serviced on 10/07/03 (from reciepr) and the plug blew out toady 3/08/03 so 25 days

[Andi 2,147,483,647]

Ok, maybe more of a chance - but it may well depend on the good-will of the garage, as they can quite easily say "we didn't touch it, it's just a coincidence"

[Si B 0]

3 months would not be unreasonable. I had a plug jump out of my Corrado 16v 3 months after I brought it (it had just had a service prior to this) Luckily the thread was ok but the remaining three plugs were all lose. The leads must have been holding them in place on a wish and a prayer. Someone must have got distracted and just not done them up when they did the service.

 

bloody thing put a massive dent in the bonnet though as it went for orbit.

[Rory 0]

Turns out that the guy i went to see today about my problem does the helicoils for the VW garage in question :shock: .

 

He reckons £40 to drill and then fit the coil.

 

My biggest concern is that he reckons the whole lot can be done without removing the head and let the rubbish just blow out. Ive seen a cylinder from my dads bike after something got trapped inside and the valves and piston etc had loads of little dents in like machine gun fire :2gunfire:

 

Will this happen on my car? Dont want to get a new engine because of a spark plug!

[Rory 0]

Si B, Sorry i meant to say three weeks. Did they offer to fix it for free?

 

I personally think that 3 weeks after a service if a spark plug comes flying out then they should take responsibility. It is very unlikey in my opinion that my plug worked its way loose and shot out if it had been torqued up 3 weeks prior

[Andi 2,147,483,647]

But you said the plugs were not changed.

So it all depends if they check the torque and condition of plugs even though they are not part of the service.

If its 'just a service', then probably not - however, if a service plus a general check-over - they should have picked it up and haven't done their job properly - whether they were loose already or they loosened them in their checks.

[Rory 0]

ok i think i can stomach 40 quid for the repair if they deny responsibility.

 

The real question then is whether a repair without taking the head off will be ok or could it cause other problems?

[stormseeker 0]

ok i think i can stomach 40 quid for the repair if they deny responsibility.

 

The real question then is whether a repair without taking the head off will be ok or could it cause other problems?

 

Maybe turn over the engine for a good few seconds on the starter with all plug leads removed? Or thinking about unburnt fuel damaging the cat - might be better if you can stop the fuel pump working (remove fuse?) - as long as the engine puffs out the bits without actually burning (i.e. exploding!) the fuel with the alloy bits in.... of course they'll still get stuck somewhere in the cat - the honeycomb is really fine :shock:

 

Hmmmmm - still sounds a bit dodgy...

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Hmmm, what you want to avoid is the swarf embedding itself down the side of the piston and scoring the bore. In fact, the natural inclination of the VR6 piston would encourage that. I would insist they try and hoover as much of the metal out as possible with a narrow pipe.

 

Imo, the torque figure for the plugs is not enough. I give them an extra half turn to be sure. Never had one come loose on me yet in 13 years, touch wood.

 

Kev

[Rory 0]

Thanks guys the opinions are appreciated.

 

I have spoken to another VW specialist who reckons he would rather leave the head on as well and he has done this with beetles for years (although the flat four configuration means that swarf will probly blow out).

 

He also reckons that by putting enough grease on the tool then very little swarf will get in the chamber.

 

Furthermore the piston liner is hard steel wheras the filings will be aluminium, will this cause much damage?

 

He says he can see if there are any filing left in after trying to blow them out. How would he do this :? ??

 

All i want is someone with a definate answer. How nuch to remove and refit the head? How much for the head gasket etc?

[Rory 0]

P.S VW dealer has officially denied responsibility as the plugs were not changed or even looked at. Glad they did such a detailed service :roll:

[Joe M 0]

To add to the bad news I have doubts about helicoils. I had a mate with a Nova that had the same thing happen and when he got it back he was told not to take it above 4000rpm, when he did it blew out again.:shock:

 

This was a while ago and I cant remember the exact details but I thought it was worth mentioning.

[vr6storm 0]

P.S VW dealer has officially denied responsibility as the plugs were not changed or even looked at. Glad they did such a detailed service :roll:

 

well to be honest in the service book its only every 40k miles that the spark plugs get changed......obviously these are the platinum tipped ones........so unless its a 40k service or you mention to change the plugs they are i'm afraid in the clear

[Rory 0]

To add to the bad news I have doubts about helicoils. I had a mate with a Nova that had the same thing happen and when he got it back he was told not to take it above 4000rpm, when he did it blew out again.:shock:

 

This was a while ago and I cant remember the exact details but I thought it was worth mentioning.

 

:shock: :shock: :shock: Your kidding! How did he fix it after all that!? That would be very very bad. Please someone out there must have good news for me, this is depressing :cry:

[Joe M 0]

Erm, to add to the depression he had to get a new cylinder head. :(

[Rory 0]

All fixed. Percy from Austrin Engineering did a good job and reckons its stronger now than it ever was eventhough it ended up costing £80 (new plugs etc).

 

He used a special hose to blow out any swarf and im confident its all above board as he does the job for VAG.

 

He also reckons that aluminium swarf will not scratch the steel liner of the cylinder.

 

After speaking to 2 specialists they seem to know what theyre talking about so im happy :D

[Joe M 0]

Good to hear, there must have been more to my friends problem than I got told. :oops: