G60 cutting out

[G60rob 0]

Since this recent cold spell began, the engine suddenly cuts out sometime in the first twenty minutes or so of driving. It doesn't cough and splutter, it's either on or off. Once everything's fully up to temp. it runs all day with no further problems.

Sometimes it cuts out momentarily, other times it has to be re-started. At these times the starter spins what sounds like a very dead engine for a while before it fires.

I've looked at the recent similar posts. If it's a component failing, such as a relay, fuel pump etc, which one is most likely in this case, assuming it is temperature-related?

[G60rob 0]

Update: things have just got a lot worse. After its second episode of cutting out today it wouldn't start at all, though the starter was spinning over briskly. But the next time I turned the key all I got was a click from the solenoid, then after that, nothing. Now, sometimes it clicks, sometimes it doesn't. Seems like a dead battery, but the starter hadn't been slowing down when it was still working, and the lights are bright without the engine running.

It bump started easily, cut out straight away, bump started again and kept running. But the starter still doesn't work. I've tried a jump start from a neighbour's car, even swapped his battery for mine, but the starter seems to have died. Coincidence, or related to the cutting out problem?

I daren't take the car to an auto electrician or garage in case it dies on the way and I'm not in a position to bump start it, so I'm a bit stuck. Lucky it happened at home, I suppose.

[Walesy 0]

Ignition switch?

 

((Common fault, do a search on it :D ))

[Tristan 0]

I think it`s the starter.

[Supercharged 2]

You check the plug and the other connections to the starter and battery terminals??

 

Try a new ignition switch before spending cash on the starter - do the lights on the dash flicker at all if you wagle the key in the lock?

 

The original issue may be something else - overfueling casuing the engine to flood and cut out, then not restart easily... I think that you may have just broken the switch frantically trying to restart it in traffic etc... (sounds unlikely but i'd put money on it!)

[G60rob 0]

If I put the headlights on and turn the key to the start position the lights dim, so I presume that means power is going to the starter, therefore the ignition switch must be OK? It's only two years since it was replaced and it is a genuine VAG item, not cheapo GSF.

The solenoid doesn't click when I do this, so I'm thinking faulty solenoid. I was going to try a direct feed from the battery bypassing the switch, but there's no room to get at anything down there with the intercooler pipes in the way.

[Supercharged 2]

Check for 12V to the solenoid plug and also try smacking the soleniod with a big bar!

[G60rob 0]

Tried the smacking cure when it first stopped working - no improvement apart from a clean patch where I hit it!

12v to which plug - the one with a red/black wire? I tried to disconnect it but my hand's too big to squeeze between the intercooler pipe and the gearbox mount.

[Supercharged 2]

12v to which plug - the one with a red/black wire?

 

Think thats it - fairly fat wire... shouldn't be that hard to get to - how big are your arms!!

[G60rob 0]

Red/black wire is thin.

Arms also are thin, but not thin enough!

Maybe you mean the fairly fat red wire held on with a nut? Can't reach that either, not from above anyway.

[Supercharged 2]

Hmmm... to dark to go and look at the car but fairly sure the solenoid feed is a plug, sorry - when I said fat wire I only meant 3-4mm

[G60rob 0]

Hmmm... to dark to go and look at the car but fairly sure the solenoid feed is a plug, sorry - when I said fat wire I only meant 3-4mm

 

You're right, Supercharged, it is a plug with a fairly fat wire. I managed to disconnect it with a long screwdriver, one finger and a crushed hand and connect a voltmeter. I get 12.8 volts when i turn the key to the start position, so presume that means ignition switch and wiring are OK. Still thinking it's a faulty solenoid, as regards non-starting anyway. Can't sort out the cutting out problem until I can get it running.

I also got a new ignition switch from GSF just in case, and get no volts at all from this, so suspect it's faulty! It looks like it came out of a cracker compared to the VAG equivalent, which is £8 but worth it IMHO.

[G60rob 0]

which is £8 but worth it IMHO.

 

£8 more, that is!

[G60rob 0]

Right, the starter motor had packed up just as I was investigating the cutting out problem - Corradoincidence again.

Now that red herring's out of the way, I still need to solve the original fault.

To summarize:

Sometimes, from cold only, the engine spins over on the starter for several turns before firing then immediately dies. Sometimes it starts first turn then dies. This can happen several times before it settles down to run. It sometimes starts normally then stops at any time in about the first 20 mins from cold and goes through the above rigmarole again. BUT, once it's hot it has no trouble starting or running (water temp. above about 110, oil about 100.)

Sometimes when I turn the key to ignition before starting nothing happens, no warning lights on the dash, but wiggling the immobilizer transponder (Clifford virtual key 3-point) wakes it up. I think this is again Corradoincidence and the immobilizer is also playing up, but if it was the immobilizer causing the stalling I'd expect it to happen whether the engine was hot or cold. I'm having the immobilizer checked on Tuesday, and possibly disconnected to see if the problem goes away.

 

Any ideas what else I can check? I'd like to narrow it down a bit before I give in and take it to a garage. A friend's Golf has been in and out of the dealer's all year with starting problems and each time they replace an expensive part and say it's fixed, but it never is. I don't want to go down that route!

[Supercharged 2]

Check the blue temp sender and the CO pot...

[Majik 0]

Right, you say the starter motor has packed up, try cleaning the connections before writing the starter motor off, its the big red cable that goes directly to the positive terminal of the battery.

This weather is the ideal time to make cause havoc with earth point and electrical connections.

Have you checked connections of relays, could it be something got disturbed when you fitted removed anything?

[G60rob 0]

The starter motor was faulty, has been replaced with an exchange from GSF and is now OK.

I checked the relays above the fuses, some seemed a bit loose so I pushed them in hard, but it made no difference.

I checked the wires to the blue temp. sender and CO pot (and various other connectors in the engine area) and wiggled them with the engine running to see if it would cut out. Don't know how else to test these, except by substitution.

 

By the way, Majik, the headlight loom is now fitted and working well, thanks again.

[Majik 0]

Cheers Mate!

Have you checked the ISV at all?

[G60rob 0]

No, I thought about it, but don't know how.

[G60rob 0]

Seems it's the Hall effect sensor in the dissy. I had an auto electrician look at it and by wiggling the sensor plug in a special electrician's way (i.e rougher than I'd dared to!) he made the engine stall. Common fault, apparently.

 

Is replacing the dissy likely to give any particular difficulties? If I take note of how it was all lined up when I take it out, will it just be a matter of dropping the new one in, lined up in the same way? Or is it important to set no.1 piston to TDC and line up the oil pump drive and so on?

Timing is just a matter of setting 6° on my timing light and checking the (very faint) line on the flywheel lines up with the pointer on the side of the hole in the clutch housing @ 2000 - 2500 rpm with the blue temp. sensor disconnected, yes?

 

Could this fault also be the cause of the intermittent rev counter? I suppose I'll find out when I change the dissy. I just hope I'm not looking at ECU problems, with a 1000 mile trip to Scotland coming up over Christmas.

[steveo29 0]

you may find your distributer is siezed in the block....it took a little fight with some grips to make mine come out

 

yes you can mark it and try to line it up as before..but it would be very wise to set the timing with a strobe light

 

those clifford virtual keys are troublesome...if you get any more trouble id bypass it to see if its that

[G60rob 0]

The previous cutting out problem was a faulty Hall-effect sensor, as I said at the time, and replacing the distributor cured it.