Full Engine management Vs Chiping ECU

[andycowuk 0]

Hi

 

I am fairly new to the G60 and Digifant side of VW, have spent the last few years messing with the 16v MK2.

 

In the KR the difference between getting full engine management and adding a k-star or similar is huge......This is because the K-jetronic is crazy and you can only improve it so much.

 

I think I am right in saying it is Digifant management on the PG engine, which I do know is much more versitile than the K-jetronic, but how much?

 

Has anyone done complete engine management overhaul? or is it just not worth it/no need?

 

Incase you dont know prices/spec, Emerald ECU and Lume is around £600, and it has multiple, fully programable 3-d maps.

 

Any comments?

 

Andrew

[G60 0]

i dont know enough about stand alone to go too deep into this... but consider this:

 

if you speak with sam brown, the mad scientist at SNS (makers of what many people will say is by far the best digi1 chip.. with no digi-lag) he will tell you to go stand alone... and he's the one who'd make the cash if you went with a chip! i only have a somewhat mild setup on my G60 right now.. standard stage 4 nothing too crazy yet... and he told me i should go stand alone. chips are great, but stand alone will always give some more grunt over digifant.. more tuning capabilities.

[GazzaG60 0]

depends what yuo wanna spend and what mapping kit and abilities you have. if you got wideband and knowledge of mapping then id expect you can stretch beyond digi. probly only of benifit if you have big mods though or a turbo setup.

 

Sam and bilal know their shit. dont think they would do a chip if they knew it was no good for the engine, they would say use stand alone all the way.

 

Ask me next week. with a bit of luck(gotta have luck with a VW) then ill have my stg 5 SNS, red tops n 65mm pulley in and should be moving a tad faster than now. As soon as its fitted and assuming it runs ok ill stick the wideband up it and see whats what. my mate has a SNS chip and his car goes well. it was runnig way too rich but i assume he didn't follow the procedure of getting AF and a re-cut chip. he's having a custom map done today i think, not SNS so ill get the comparison from another angle. ive seen a jabbachip, ive seen a SNS chip(soon to have one too :D ) and then ill see a custom map not SNS.

 

the ideal would be to run all 3 one after another on rollers for proof of pudding but i cant see that happening.

[G60 0]

even so.. stand alone will be faster/more versatile. sam told me straight up.. if you've got the money, don't waste your time on digi, go straight to stand alone.. and he's the digi god as of late.

[andycowuk 0]

All these chips do is intersept the signal sent to the OEM ECU, condition them then forward them to the OEM ecu, to make it act differently. There is no question about stand alone being better than Chipping; Stand alone will always be better, I want to know how much.

[Dubcharged 0]

Yep if you can afford stand alone management then go for it.

 

chips contain the complete fuelling/timing maps as well as a host of action - reaction tables. The ecu reads the map on the chip at full throttle and therefore controls the fuelling etc correspondingly. The ecu switches between the lambda for trimming fuel and the chip for the fuelling map at part throttle and full throttle respectively. The chip also has other tricks on it such as No Lag code and cold start maps.

 

At the end of the day it really depends on what you wanna do with your G60, If you're gonna modify the 8v as it is and go for the cam/porting/pulley/intercooler etc then you wont gain much from going to a stand alone over a good chip. If however you're gonna go on a mad one and do a cross flow turbo for over 300 hp then you'd benefit from a stand alone. Although we even have maps for turbo's and cross flows too :lol:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Yes the K jet management is very basic and fixed. Popular piggy-back modules such as the K star KS-301 can be made to do a variety of things. I used a KS-301 on my 16V Turbo to control an extra 4 injectors via MAP sensor and various boost maps.

 

Depends what you want to achieve. DTA is a very good standalone management system but you need to add a crank position sensor to the crank pulley, along with a timing wheel - supplied normally.

 

These setups offer sequential injection, among plenty of other things!

 

Kev

[andycowuk 0]

Bringing this one back from the archives - I still want to know if anyone has done this before.

[biggerbigben 0]

I've fitted a Haltech EMS - do I need an exhaust sensor?? If so, why?

Ben

[andycowuk 0]

you might want a lamda probe to give feedback to the ecu on the mixture that has been burnt...but you dont need one.

[aposegil 0]

ok after running a DTA which is identical to a Emerald i would chose the g60 digi with a great chip

 

trust me if you want a easy, reliable, drivable, cold start etc keep to the digi as unless you spend £2000 for a proper standalone

 

but then if you just want straight out power and only drive every other weekend hell go for the standalone but u need alot of patiences

[Amy 0]

you might want a lamda probe to give feedback to the ecu on the mixture that has been burnt...but you dont need one.

 

when my dta was mapped they conected a lambda up but it was removed after mapping.

[aposegil 0]

yeah vince uses a wide band lamba sensor to get accurate readings of the a/f ratio

 

also u dont need one to run with the DTA but you can plug one up

[Amy 0]

yeah ... he left it tie wrapped to the bottom of my car :D

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Are DTAs and the like OBDI/II compliant for MOT emissions etc? I'm guessing they come with their own proprietary software and won't use standard VAG ECU protocols for VAG-COM etc?

 

From what I know of them, they're quite time consuming to set up but they can do a lot more than standard brains and there's plenty of scope for extra fuelling if you uprate the engine.

 

K

[Amy 0]

Are DTAs and the like OBDI/II compliant for MOT emissions etc? I'm guessing they come with their own proprietary software and won't use standard VAG ECU protocols for VAG-COM etc?

 

From what I know of them, they're quite time consuming to set up but they can do a lot more than standard brains and there's plenty of scope for extra fuelling if you uprate the engine.

 

K

 

I'm not sure what the protocols are but it went through its MOT no probs :wink:

 

yes they are time consuming, vince mapped ours in the summer and had heat probs aswell so it took him the best part of a week to do.

[PhatVR6 0]

 

trust me if you want a easy, reliable, drivable, cold start etc keep to the digi as unless you spend £2000 for a proper standalone

 

but then if you just want straight out power and only drive every other weekend hell go for the standalone but u need alot of patiences

 

my views exactly.