vr6 turbo vs 20v turbo

[Chris VR6nos 0]

Have you all seen the 2.8L golf VR6turbo Eip does? 680bhp at the wheels!

 

I run approx 325bhp at the flywheel if figures are to be believed but hey!

 

I use my VR for what it's for and nothing has broken in the couple of years i've had it apart form me crashing it!

 

The power to the tarmac isn't much of a problem in my considered opinion and have even used the nitrous in first gear when up against a cossie or Evo VI with impressive results, just don't floor it off the line, that's NOT driving, that is hoping!!

 

My engine is happy to rev to 7K eagerly and hits the limiter!

The charger will help, as will the 5lb ultra-lite flywheel but 17's help get the power down with the bigger contact footprint than the 15's can provide, if you want to go fast, get the kit and spend the money!

 

20v's are excelent engines and i have been very impressed with them but a VR6 has a special pedigree from back in the day and a following to match.

 

Long live the VR6!!!

 

 

 

 

Chris

 

P.s. Thought i'd join in with the long posts on this thread! :-D

[dubster82 0]

Ess Three wrote:

...middrange, the S3 with it's torque delivery, the TT / S3 absolutely murders a Corrado VR6. Period.

 

 

Again, I take issue with you there. My standard VR6 easily sticks with my mate's Leon Cupra R in all conditions. And they're not too dissimilar weight wise.

 

But wouldn't i be right in saying that an S3 has 225bhp wilst a Leon only actually has 180. 10 LESS than a Standard VR.

[Joe M 0]

Standard Leon cupra has 180, but Kev mentioned it was a Cupra R wich has the same engines as the S3, either 210 or 225bhp. The leon is also fwd so id imagine it to be a bit quicker than an s3 once moving due to less transmission losses.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Standard Leon cupra has 180, but Kev mentioned it was a Cupra R wich has the same engines as the S3, either 210 or 225bhp. The leon is also fwd so id imagine it to be a bit quicker than an s3 once moving due to less transmission losses.

 

Yep my mate has the 210bhp R. Leon's labeled 20V T are 180bhp. If he'd waited a few more months he'd have got 225bhp :?

[corradovr6sc 0]

I don't know how the weight of an S3 compares with and Audi TT but I lined up against an 225bhp TT out of a roundabout and went sailing past by the time I reached third (standard apart from induction kit and cat-bypass). The power of the vr6 is stealthy.

[Ess Three 0]

Again, I take issue with you there. My standard VR6 easily sticks with my mate's Leon Cupra R in all conditions. And they're not too dissimilar weight wise.

 

Hmm...both FWD then?

 

On a dry test track on a hot, dry day, a Cupra R is very much equel to the S3...but this is the UK where it rains, roads are crap and we don't live on test tracks with their grippy tarmac...on the road in all conditions it's far easier to extract the performance out of the 4WD car...and once you've got a few car lengths of a lead, it never dissapeares.

 

Also, I don't remember being able to 4 wheel drift through roundabouts under power, in a corrado VR6...or accelerate into a corner without the onset of terminal understeer, like you can in a quattro car. Or maybe physics work differently up here! :wink:

 

I'll agree that on the flat out stuff, there's not much in it between the two...an advantace to the S3? Yes. But not a huge margin... a noticable one none the less...assuming the driver of the S3 knows how to drive the S3 in order to get the best out of it (completely different driving style to the Corrado VR6)

 

 

Obviously I have an S3...so I know it well. But, I also have a Corrado VR6 (although it's fair to say it's not moving anywhere in the near future...none the less I've enough experience with them to be able to give a fair appraisal), and a Mk3 Golf GTI 16v.

I drive each one differently...and in my opinion, the S3 is the fastest car I own, point to point, in all weather conditions.

 

The Mk3 16v Golf is the most fun...

The VR6 has the best engine (Schrick VSR, cams, BVH etc) - incredible piece of engineering

The S3 the fastest everyday...OK, it's modified, but even standard it was.

 

I'm not arguing with anybody elses accounts of their car against car 'X' on the road...different cars, different drivers, different moods...

 

 

All I'm saying is that with the same driver (me) in any one of the above cars, all well set up, the S3 is the quickest. Everywhere.

 

 

 

 

Actually, it's more like 370bhp with 405lb/ft if you use an EIP tuning kit.

 

Assuming you can get the LHD based EIP tuning kit to work properly on a RHD car...you may well be right! :)

[biggerbigben 0]

I've been in Jabbasport's FWD Seat Ibiza, that was running @ 350bhp, ok the wheels will spin all day long, BUT it was still able to handle the power. Top end was awesome and the pull low down was harder than a TVR Chimera and an Aston Martin DB7 V12 I've been in!! It revs to 8k all day long aswell!

 

However I have installed 4WD on my corrado to get the best out of it.

[mark_vr6 0]

To say a standard s3 will beat a corrado vr is shite. I have owned 2 s3's and they are disappointing in standard form for ultimate acceleration for what you pay - they are heavy but the short gearing helps the times. A vr will not touch it in the wet (the 4 wheel drive is very good) or from a standing start if you revs the nuts off it but catch it off boost and you can be embarrased.

 

I have to say that the s3 is very impressive but I would end up modding the car for more handling, grunt wheels etc etc so I ended up buying a vr and modding that instead which I prefer for that engine (and its a golf). Each to their own I suppose.

 

Hey Phat, can you put 4mo in my golf please

[PhatVR6 0]

I can once I've done my mates and sussed out how to!

 

I can't wait to see how a 6 speed 4WD corrado VR6 drives. I might be greedy and take it out to 3.1 before I fit it.....with 288 cams!

[mark_vr6 0]

I might hold you to that!!

 

You are almost making my current favourite (in my mind) project car - 6 spd 4WD Corrado vr with some fettling but I would like the r32 engine inside - pricey option I reckon though.

[JT 0]

with a 3.1 whar power increase are you looking at ( very interested vr owner who loves the idea of a 4wd c) :D

[PhatVR6 0]

No idea. I'm more interested in mid range torque that outright power anyway.

 

You're only at 7000rpm for a split second......your at 3500rpm very often....where would you rather have the gains.....

[JT 0]

no i agree thats why i bought a vr6 i was just interested in what £ per pft you were looking at anyway you take your vr to 7000, :D nasty!!!!!!

[PhatVR6 0]

small capacity 4 cylinder turbo engines don't excite me.

 

I don't like them, they sound sh1te, and they are gutless and I don't like the power delivery of turbo's either. I prefer the throttle response of a normally aspirated engine. that's my preference, how is that talking sh1te?

 

and to anser fec's question, my VR revs to 7200rpm, and produces power up to 7000rpm.

[biggerbigben 0]

Try reving to 8k then with a 20vT, power coming @2.2k all the way to 8k. By the time the VR has thought about its weight problem the little light nimble 4 Pot has eaton your VR for dinner...

 

Its all about the power! More power = more torque and therefore better pick up where ever you are in the rev range. However a 3.1 VR coupled to 4wd does sound good...thought about a turbo aswell :D :mad:

[PhatVR6 0]

It's not all about the power at all, it's all about the traction, response and driveability. 3 properties which an overpowered FWD turboed car has none of, so they're not for me thanks.

 

Yes, I did think about a turbo, but the off boost performance isn't for me at all. I prefer the NA driveability, and I'm fitting nitrous for use on the drag racing sessions.

 

I thought this forum was going to be more grown up than others I've used, but it seems to be yet another one where the users are obsessed with peak power figures at the expense of everything else.

[JT 0]

well with all due respect i just asked what kind of gains your gonna see if you bore it out to a 3.1 with respect to the current 3.2 in the R32 cos i was interested and probably because i am a fellow VR6 owner for the same reasons as you ( normal aspiration ) not because i'm only interested in how much power you can get for as little money which i appreciate other people maybe more interested in. anyway good luck with your project..........................

[PhatVR6 0]

oh, sorry, the above post wasn't directed at you anyway.

 

As for power, who knows, but the extra 0.2l should give massive amounts of mid range torque. I've yet to experience it myself, but from what other people who have big capacity big cammed VR6's they are meant to be beasts.

[JT 0]

na thats cool, i'll be interested to see the final result...........

[PhatVR6 0]

Well if it's any interest to you, my mates R32 has cams, a milltek exhaust and an AMD re-map, and has 307BHP peak!

 

But what impressed me more was that it had 185lbs/ft of torque (the peak figure that mine produces at 3500rpm) at only 1500rpm!!! I can't remember what the peak figure was, but the graph rose VERY sharply from there on and it held it way up to the higher revs too. Impressive. Shame they are impossible to find in the breakers at the mo. :x

 

3.2 24v......ooooh :D

[JT 0]

well we ( the uk ) only got 750 R32's so i don't think we'll ever find one imho cos even the in the vw cup they keep the engines prietty much stock, i guess all ya need is to hope they write one off and just sell it on but would you !!!! your mates R32 sounds lovelly though :D

[biggerbigben 0]

I'd better go and age 50 years then..lol

 

Don't get so serious my man, its only a bit of fun. Not everyones the same, just because you like a NA VR6 engines doesn't mean everyone else does!! I prefer the cheaper 1.8T with its good all round abilities, you like the more grown up VR - who cares, it doesn't matter.

 

Anyway mate in terms of expense you've fitted 4wd, I've done this as well and its far from cheap...

[PhatVR6 0]

Exactly, presonal prefference. Each to their own. one reason I decided to get rid of the Golf, sick off all the "you must have this, stylng, these wheels, chrome this, chrome that, retro boll0cks this", etc etc.

 

Did you use a Rallye as a donor for the 4WD?

[biggerbigben 0]

Yes I did, used the rallye floor pan and all the rallye drivechain.

[CoxyLaad 0]

Right then,

I will share my musings with you all.

Before I start this is not having a go at anyone especially you Ruffy, so you can pick your dummy up off the floor and get back in your pram :wink:

 

I started of with a 2ltr 16v mk1 which was very nice but a bit raw. I then bought Stealths first ever 20v turbo mk2 golf, which was nice and refined and quiet, but I found that the characteristics did not suit a smooth driving style. The problem I had with it was that although there was next to no lag the power was still non linear ie, at a certain throttle position, at certain rpm, the power delivery fluctuated dependant on what the engine had being doing previous. Its hard to explain but after driving the thing for a year it was starting to get on my nerves. Anyway I fitting an 02M 6 speed gearbox to it and it accentuated my perception of the problem (which isnt a problem really its just my opinion) it turned the car into a proper racer with the throttle being more like a switch.

 

Anyway I as fond as I was of the car I sold it, and bought a corrado VR6, which I absolutely loved. The thtrottle response of a turbo'd engine cannot compete with the clean crisp response of a large capacity NA motor. Add into that the VR howl and I was converted straight away. Yes you have to rev the VR a bit more to get it going (in standard trim) but that isnt a problem, the power is there when you need it and its instant.

 

I say Loved the VR cos it got nicked after 4 weeks of ownership.....

 

I now own a mk2 golf VR6 and a project V6 4motion corrado

 

 

so in conclusion:

1.8T

+ more power cheaper (a big plus if ever there was one)

- its not NA, non descript engine note

 

VR6 (and hopefully V6 24v)

+ silky smooth, crisp throttle response, lovely engine growl and howl

- produces comparatively low torque figures low down rev range compared to 1.8T

 

Although I hear the variable inlet manifolds help the VR minus point somewhat.