Crazy Daves Bog Standard 16v :)

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

Where did you get you exhaust pipes from Dave?

[CrazyDave 0]

Where did you get you exhaust pipes from Dave?

 

Jetex website, or give them a ring if you've had enough of online ordering for this week :lol:

 

8) VR turbos coming out of the wookwork!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Funny how the clutch plate wears from the outside edge first..... seen loads of VRs do that, inc mine. I think that's why they judder when new / replaced, because they're not mating squarely onto the pressure plate / flywheel.

 

I'd recommend a Helix or Sachs Sporting clutch as the one Shcimmel sent me (which looks like a stock clutch) judders like mad.

 

Make sure the manifold IBIVR gave you has machined flanges otherwise you will end up pulling your exhaust studs out of the head when you tighten the copper alloy nuts up. Mine needed extensive reworking at Stealth after ripping out 3 head studs (now helicoiled) tightening it onto the new head.

 

You might find your LM-1 is miles off too. Mine is one of 3 Vince has found to be inaccurate and therefore not able to be used for lambda control on our ECUs...... but I don't want to spend £800 on a wideband display like his Motec one!

 

The fun the and [expensive] games........

[CrazyDave 0]

Thanks for the notes Kev, pulling the head off again after a few hundred miles isn't my idea of fun!

 

Clutch wear is a little strange, might be due to the bite point springs just under the friction material. Makes the clutch progressive when taking up drive.

 

Sachs would be my preference (mainly down to experience of using Sachs before and OEM for VW etc etc).

 

I'll get the manifold machined level. Mine doesn't look too bad but it only takes a small alignment mismatch to cause a problem. Sorry your the one having to pioneer all this stuff Kev

 

One of my customers should have some 'calibration gas' canisters, this gives an accurate reference for the LM-1 calibration. Or I could get it reference calibrated with a Horiba Mexa 7500 (about £250,000 to buy new :roll: ). Should do the trick. If you want yours doing, let me know.

[GIXXERUK 0]

hat off to you dave , thats some crazy sh!t :-) nice skills !

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Ah yeah I forgot, you've got the LM-1. That's a bit better than the LC-1 I'm using. Would be good if it can be recalibrated with your professional machinery!! God knows why mine is miles off. DTA just said map it to the sensor you trust, so we used the Motec.

 

The Helix clutch is a Sachs pressure plate, but with their own friction material. Good fof 600hp. I've used them in the past and are smooth and judder free....but they're £500, hence getting the Schimmel one.....wish I'd just got the Helix to begin with now!

[CrazyDave 0]

Think I'll get the probe calibration checked anyway just to be sure, I'll let you know how I get on. Is your LC-1 electronics blob mounted in the engine bay? Could be getting hot and throwing the readings out? Maybe try and mount the blob in the scuttle or somewhere cool.

 

Wow £500, better be good for that much. Mind you the Sach sporting clutches are £350 ish.

 

I drove my boses new Skyline today..... 420hp (it's a mild one!). Smallish turbo not sure which one, but boost from 2.5k up to redline. Running about 15psi boost. Wow, pretty quick but nice and smooth. The chassis felt like it could take twice as much.

 

He has a paddle clutch. Not too bad really, but you can't get away with half hearted driving, you have to think about the clutch when pulling away all the while. Not really my cup of tea.

 

Had my exhaust manifold on a surface plate today to check it's flat. But you can rock it by about 25 thou, high spot in the middle. Cheers for the tip off Kev. It's off to the machine shop now!

 

Just rebuilding the cylinder head. Chains at the weekend, weather permitting! JOY!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

It's currently strapped to the ABS ECU loom, so not really getting that hot tbh. I did think about moving it somewhere else, maybe over to the offside wing and go through the bulkhead there, but the added problem of fusebox noise would then present itself.....mind you that's where the standard narrow band goes and it copes OK?

 

Spoke to Vince today and the Helix came in at £300, not the £500 I first thought. I guess 02A clutches are cheaper than the older 020s then :-)

I know from a experience that one is OEM + a bit, so should be good.

 

I've driven a highly modded RS turbo with a paddle clutch and that was fine, lovely smooth take up. A little on / off and heavy for most people's tastes but I don't mind that, it's just judder I can't stomach.

 

Glad you checked the manifold. Mine was OK for mating face runout, but it's the flanges you need to look at, on the 'cast' side where the nuts / washers rest on. On mine, these flanges weren't machined flat, but were at an angle. So as you tightened the nuts up, the angle of them splayed the studs out an angle and then eventually ripped them out of the head!

 

Good luck with the head!

[CrazyDave 0]

Update:

 

The head is built up and ready to go back on.

 

Bottom timing chain has been replaced, new lower guide and ratchet tensioner.

 

Waiting my ARP bolts so can't put it all back together yet.

 

Little tip - Clean all those engine bits in the dishwasher, they look great. But run an empty cycle before putting dishs in again.

 

 

 

Kev, thanks for the info. Both sides are being machined level. And yes the cast side was still cast, so no good. £300 is a bit more like it, looks like a call to Vince pretty soon. And some rear vibra mounts. The paddle clutch did have a small judder in first gear, which put me off a bit too.

 

I might start the exhaust before putting the gbox back in, access is much better with it out of the way. Will see how the engine position looks with it all back together and the front mount on.

 

Much happier now the shiney stuff is starting to go on!

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

Come on Dave ! Catch up :lol:

Good to see your progressing,i didnt think i would get as far as i am but i do have a workshop to myself

 

Never heard on the dishwasher trick befrore,if i went near it with car parts i would be a dead man!!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Dishwasher, LOL! You're a lucky man to be able to put engine parts in the kitchen, let alone in the washer!! My missus would go ballistic if she opened the dishwasher to get a cup out and found a cylinder head in there :lol:

 

You will struggle to not get any judder at all Dave, not unless you replace the flywheel aswell (£76+VAT exchange from VW). VR6s for some reason are ultra fussy on engine mount shure stiffness and friction surface trueness. Get one or both of those areas wrong and it can and often does lead to judder..... at best, long term, you'll probably get a very slight bit of judder in 1st and reverse....and that's just with standard replacements! I'm hoping the Helix will prove otherwise and be totally smooth, but I'm not counting my chickens. Anything will be an improvement on the Schimmel one!

 

On the mounts, I'm 99% sure you will find the competition spec rear too stiff. The front comp is fine as it's isolated by the cross member mounts. The rear one will transmit a lot of vibration. Not trying to govern your project, just recommendations as I know you like refinement too.

 

Fast road, comp front and fast road or comp gearbox perhaps, depending on how loud you like your transmission whine :-)

 

Good idea on the front pipe. I did mine with the engine in situ as it was easier for clearance checking.

I can confirm that after 1500 miles of the gear cables rubbing on the front pipe, they're still mint!! No meltage, wear at all.....cool 8)

[CrazyDave 0]

Well, I spoke to Vince today and have gone for the Helix (non paddle). I'll give it a go, he reckons it'll be a little bit heavier on the pedal due to the extra spring pressure, but the bite point should be progressive enough to make it a nice easy drive.

 

Also gone for the fast road rear mounts (engine and box), front was done last year, comp version.

 

I had a good look at the front pipe this weekend, while it's all in bits. The engine is a bit out of position as it's only held in by one mount and two axle stands. But I offered up all the various pipe sections to get a clearer picture. Looks like the key is to get the pipe past the rack at just the right angle to give maximum clearance, shortening the cat pipe will be an advantage as it'll push everything back a bit. The way the standard pipe does that sharp sweep past the rack is just not poss with 3" pipe!

 

Going to build the engine and box back up before starting the proper cutting and welding just to be sure of the engine position.

 

Keep the tips coming Kev, it's really appreciated :D

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Cool, good choices on the parts chap ;-) I ran a Helix in my MK2 16V Turbo and it was heavier for sure, quite a bit actually, but the bite was stock smooth on the take up. The 02A Helix won't exhibit such a huge increase in pedal stiffness as it's a much lighter pedal system than the 020's anyway, being hydraulic.

 

There is one further good tip I have, which I've also shared with James and that is to return the turbo's oil to the engine block, rather than the sump.

 

To drain back to the sump on the VR, whilst still maintaining good driveshaft clearance, means draining really low down in the sump, way under the oil level. GTs need to drain above the oil level. A litre or so will be permanently blasting round the engine when it's running, but that still leaves 4 - 5 litres hanging around for the oil return to over come. This back pressure reduces the life of the turbo seals and can lead to blue smoke too, which would P you off no end after all that work!

 

Draining to the block is best 8)

 

PM me your email address and I'll forward pictures of exactly where to drill the hole in your block and what fittings to use etc.

 

I drained to the sump on my 2.9 engine and did indeed get a little blue smoke from the turbo occasionally. On the 3.0 I am draining to the block and get a perfectly clean exhaust :-)

[CrazyDave 0]

Loads of progress (well for me anyway) this weekend.

 

Head all back on with steel gasket and spacer.

 

New timing chains and tensioners all fitted.

 

New Helix motorsport clutch fitted and gearbox back on.

 

Front slam panel, oil cooler bracket and cross member prepared for powder coating (going tomorrow).

 

Aux belt tensioner fitted new bearing, £6.50 compared to £85 from the dealer.

 

Vibratechnics rear engine and gearbox mounts fitted.

 

Head fitted ready to be torqued down with new ARP head bolts.

 

Side view of head ready about to go back on. I decided to fit the head first and then do the timing chains. I suppose you could do it the other way round but didn't want to risk getting the cam timing wrong.

 

Vibratechnics rear engine and gearbox mounts. Essential for keeping everything in place when producing 350 horses!

 

Helix uprated clutch (pressure and friction plate). Pedal feels pretty much like standard but should be good for the extra power.

 

 

Next up:

Fit the turbo manifold and turbo. Sort oil drain from turbo to block.

 

Fabricate the downpipe.

 

Fabricate a short inlet manifold...

 

Fit oil cooler.

 

Fit charge cooler and sort plumbing.

 

Sort inlet pipework and other assorted finishing off.

 

Never ending list that keeps getting longer.... 8)

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

Nice work Dave,just as you think you are getting futher forward more things crop up to fix or repair! :lol:,what charge cooler you putting on?

[CrazyDave 0]

Nice work Dave,just as you think you are getting futher forward more things crop up to fix or repair! :lol:,what charge cooler you putting on?

 

Looking at these http://www.chargecooler.co.uk, not perhaps as nice as the Schimmel stuff but costs about nearly half as much. Go for a big one though to min the pressure drop and max cooling effect.

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

Not keen on that style due to its shape,how about this one?

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Water-to-Air-Turb ... dZViewItem

 

Quite similar to the SP one...and its cheap!

[biggerbigben 0]

Loving all these VR6 turbos! I want Iwant!!

[CrazyDave 0]

Not keen on that style due to its shape,how about this one?

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Water-to-Air-Turb ... dZViewItem

 

Quite similar to the SP one...and its cheap!

 

That looks like the right kind of kit, be nice if the hose entries didn't enter at 90deg to the core but for £160, not bad.

 

These things are a bit steep really, it's a core with some end caps welded on thats been pressure tested. How hard can it be?

 

Ben Mmmmm Turbo Power!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I can confirm the Helix definitely handles 350 hp. It's rated to 600 I think.

Helix do advise though, that you can get a wee bit of judder whilst it beds in, but I've not experienced that yet with mine. In other words, give it a couple of weeks to break in before complaining, LOL!

 

The guy that runs that chargecooler site knows his stuff, but take some of the claims with a pinch of salt. I have it on good authority that those PWR cores have quite a big boost loss and the Bosch pumps are known to fail. I could of course, have said nothing and let you buy from there, but my conscience won't allow it, sorry!

 

The one James linked to is on the right track, Schimmel's version of it works very well indeed. 0.25psi boost loss and super efficient.

 

With no airflow over the pre-rad on the dyno, the top end can was room temp but the lower one was colder. It's incredible how they've managed to get such a small intercooler to cool down the charge so quickly. Think how fast that air is coming out of the turbo and then look at the size of the cooler, it's easy to see why people are so sceptical of chargecoolers, but they do work - if spec'd properly :-)

[CrazyDave 0]

Cheers Kev, glad to hear the Helix is working out. Pedal does feel really nice on mine, but can't drive it yet for obvious reasons.

 

I think the PWR coolers are being used by Storm Developments. The bigger 6" - 8" units are much better for minimal pressure loss.

 

You are correct, the losses across them are higher, due to them being length ways rather than sideways. Sideways would need more water flow across it to maintain the cooling for the air velocity and the narrow path, hence big pump and tank.

 

Chargecoolers are the way forward for me. Compact, efficient and minimal extra weight and pipework volume. Just finding something suitable for the application is proving to be fun :)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Which is where turbos come in, you simply up the boost to compensate :-)

 

Well I hope the PWR works out for you if you choose that path. I'm very happy with the way the Schimmel one performs but it's good to see folk use alternatives and get some comparisons.

 

I guess Schimmel prefers to use the "chucking a bucket of water over hot metal" approach, as opposed to a garden hose. Those Bosch pumps certainly seem to move the water, with good head pressure too, the Meziere one Schimmel uses is a brute force sledghammer pump to really quench that heat away from the core.

[CrazyDave 0]

Progress this weekend:

 

Re-Fitted front cross member and slam panel.

 

Fitted turbo manifold (after machining work) & turbo.

 

Tacked up downpipe ready to get tig welded.

 

Fitted bung into sump for oil drain from turbo.

 

Pleased with progress so far 8)

 

Oh it was cold this morning!

 

Front panels refitted.

 

Nice shiney panels. Powder coat came up really great!

 

First downpipe bits in place.

 

I wanted to get the bellows as close as poss to the turbo to isolate the engine movement. It's not that clear in the pic but the bellows stops short of the gap for the steering rack and then sweeps through with a 45deg bend.

 

 

The proposed location of the drain oil line. Not as nice as the block location but above the max level of the sump and well clear of the vertical movement of the driveshaft. Have to see how this goes.

 

Ready to TIG together. Oxygen probes x 2 and Bosch CAN based EGT sensor.

 

Cat has been removed but space to fit one with band clamps.

 

Planning on getting rid of the idle stab valve and using this drive by wire TB instead, need to come up with an interface board to drive it.

[CorradoVR6-Turbo 0]

Looking good Dave like the powder coated bits need to get mine done at some point.

Thanks for the Squirt info...ive had mine on the road all i can say is you will love the turbo flutter... :twisted:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Good stuff.

 

Oil drain will be fine how you've done it.