Improving Ride Quality

[herisites 0]

Hey,

 

The ride quality in my vr is quite shocking since fitting my coilovers. The coilovers are hard anyway which i was expecting but surely little things like drain covers and changes in tarmac etc shouldnt make the car crash and bang so i am looking to improve my ride. Granted my wheels dont help either being 9" with 40 profile tyres.

 

I am thinking the usual bushes and ball joints (top mounts have already been done). I can replace the front wishbones and ball joints myself, i will have to get the rear axle bushes done at a garage.

 

So i just have a few questions:

 

1) How easy/hard is it to change the ARB bushes?

2) On GSF when ordering these i know i need both left hand and right hand wishbones, but do i need to order 2 ball joints or is the price on the site for the set?

3) Any other simple enough changes that could help ride quality?

 

Cheers,

 

Rob.

[Jim 1]

Quite frankly mate I think you're going to struggle to make any improvement. The trade off with low and wide is a crashing ride.. its just the way of things!

 

New VW bushes / rubber bits I suppose is going to help but I don't think you're going to make much improvement!

[herisites 0]

Well another reason i want to change all the rubbers etc is because i want the car stable and driving well before i supercharge it.

[dr_mat 0]

The biggest problem with the Corrado's ride is not so much the transmission of movement to the cabin, it's the flex and twist of the whole car and the way the interior reacts to it.

Ever been in a Civic T-R? Suspension is rock hard, and yet it feels much more compliant on the sharp bumps than even a standard-sprung Corrado does.

The Corrado is an old design. The shell twists, all the car's internal plastics have to flex, and they creak and rattle because of this.

[herisites 0]

So shall i save my money and put up with the ride quality or will spending £100 on front wishbones and ball joints at least make some difference to the quality and most of handling?

[Jim Bowen 1]

that what lowered suspensions and low profiles tyres do :(

 

is why i'm thinking of lowering mine 20-30mm on the standard speedlines, got fed up with the ride quality in previous cars i've had

[corozin 0]

The difference in ride quality between different brands of coilovers is more than you would believe possible in my experience. Of course there is a world of difference between "ride quality" and "handling quality" but since it's ride you've mentioned specifically I'll concentrate on that - solving ride and handling needs a lot more time & effort to do.

 

I'd suggest trying the following to start with :

 

a) If the dampers are adjustable wind them round as soft as you can set them, and then slowly increment them up until the ride starts to jar again.

 

b) If that fails, try winding the height up 5mm or 10mm. It won't make a lot of difference to the way the car looks, but even that small amount of adjustment may give you the extra compliance needed to solve the problem. From what you say about "crashing" over potholes it seems as though your front suspension is running out of travel and hitting the bumpstops.

 

c) Check the state of the lower wishbone bushes. Fitting rock-hard suspension may have exposed some slop in those bushes which was previously disguised by the softer springs/dampers you had before, and the new suspension will now be putting them under a lot of duress. If they are farked, as you say you can get a pair of replacement wishbones with bushes already pressed in for around £100 at GSF. I wouldn't bother doing the ARB bushes at this point - they're a bugger to change and they aren't the cause of the ride problem.

 

 

If none of those things resolve the problem then I'm afraid we're back to the actual coilovers themselves. Initially when I started writing this I didn't realise what you had fitted to the car but now I've noticed you've got a Weitec kit. Hmm... there's no easy way to say this but I've come across Weitecs before fitted to both VR6 and G60 cars and the ride was very hard and crashy in both instances, and there was nothing which could be done to really solve the basic issues. The root causes were strong spring rates which are really designed more for the German market rather than the (far more lumpy) British roads. The dual-spring design also exacerbates the crashiness compared with other makes which use a single, dual rate spring.

 

I hope you manage to make the car reasonable by trying to adjust it. I really l hate to give folks bad news especially when they've just spent £money, but it's probably better that I tell you rather than you sit there wondering why it's all so bloody bad to drive no matter how you adjust it.

 

As a general rule of thumb you do get what you pay for with coilovers, and anyone who's ever wondered why Koni or H&R kits are >£700 have that question answered the first time they ride in a car fitted with them. In the event that you try and send the Weitec's back, you should also avoid buying Bilstein & Avo coilovers, because both of those are also more attuned to the German market and (although excellent brands) are also far too hard for comfortable use on UK roads.

 

Sorry...

[vwdeviant 0]

Any-one tried Spax? They're made in Britain (Bicester actually!)

[Mystic Rado 0]

First thing I'd say is don't be tempted to fit poly bushes if you want to retain any level of ride comfort. It makes a huge difference to compliancy and also road noise transmission. I went through this process on my Mk 2 GiT

 

1. With worn standard bushes and Koni/Eibachs it was comfortablle but a bit loose, in fact surprisingly good ride.

 

2. Changed front bushes to urethane and ride quality deteriorated noticeably plus more road noise. Go-kart handling.

 

3. Changed rear bushes for urethane = twitchier/more direct feel, crashingly hard ride quality.

 

The thing that actually improved the steering response most was changing the steering rack cos it was shagged, but that's another story.

 

The end result is go kart handling but loads of road nosise and crashing over speed humps etc. It's fun but tiring for long journeys. I don't want the C to go the same way, so fitted H&R coilovers and standard rubber bushings - the ride is lovely now, firm but well damped and still fine over speed bumps and on crap road surfaces. Really nice.

 

Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is don't be tempted to fit polys unless you want things even crashier. Plus a big thumbs up for H&Rs, saved a bit on mine by buying from a German eBay shop btw. Not cheap, but cheaper :-)

[herisites 0]

Mystic Rado, I had poly bushes on my old car and i agree the handling was fantastic but it made it very uncomfortable and crashy and i certainly dont want to make my C any crashier so i will stick with standard bushes.

 

corozin, Thanks for that mate its a great help, i had heard that the weitecs were a hard ride before i got them but i didnt have a massive amount of money to spend and they are good for handling. I may change them one day when i have some cash to spare but for now i will just put up with it i reckon. I will change my bushes as im pretty sure they are shot, so hopefully they will make some improvement.

 

I am also going to try and 'rattle free' my interior as i myself can put up with the hard ride as i know it handles because of it but its just annoying hearing everything in the car rattling and almost embarassing with people in the car so this weeked i am going to give this a go!

 

Cheers for all your help

 

Rob.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Corozin is spot on.

 

Many cheap kit producers hide cr@p dampers behind super strong springs.

 

Weitec aren't in the cr@p arena, but their cheaper kits could be a little more forgiving tbh.

 

Ideally you want softer springs with super quality 2 way adjustable dampers.

 

I've tried loads of kits on my Corrado and 2 ways (or 3 ways if you're rich enough) with mild springs is defo the way to go....imo.

 

But the snag is, softer springs need more suspension travel, so you can kiss goodbye to slamming :-)

[herisites 0]

But the snag is, softer springs need more suspension travel, so you can kiss goodbye to slamming :-)

 

Forget it then :lol: thanks for the help though. I think for now i will just get as many rubbers etc upgraded, de-rattle the interior and go from there :)

[24V Renshaw 0]

Well my Rado was about as low as you could practically go and was running very stretched tyres on 17's. It drove superbly over the bumps (as anyone who has been in it will testify, PhatVR6/Coxy etc..) and never "crashed".

I replaced everything with poly bushes excluding top mounts and rear beam bushes where I just used OE stuff.

I too had Weitecs on my MK1 once, hard as nails and I actually blew them to pieces eventually. I had Koni's and then FK's (with Koni dampers) on the Rado and cannot fault them. As John rightly said, crashiness is only caused by either worn suspension components or badly matched springs and dampers. It is possible to get a good firm, but damped ride, just be patient.

 

Jay

[StuartFZR400 0]

I think most of the ideas have been covered and could potentially be down to those hard springs; seems like you will have to make do with a harsh ride once you've tweaked the setting on those coilies. The damper does little to resist the initial impact of a bump, but does prevent the car bouncing back too quickly(without a damper you'd have a wibbly wobbly ride like the yanks seem to have), its mainly down to the spring; NB *however a damper thats too firm will not allow the car to return to the rest height soon enough and if you hit a second bump very soon it will still be half compressed and therefore seem much harder; its fiddly. ,,,, An additional note to the soft shock, you can tell by a crude simple test - bounce on the given corner and see what happens. If it bonuces back up, then falls down an inch, then bounces back up a tiny bit (ie doesnt come up in one motion), its too soft; if it was a standard shock it would be deemed a dead duff one, however in your case it will mean its too soft, or alternatively if its an old oil shock, it could be a case the oil needs replacing - not likely your prob.

 

A SECOND area to consider is the TYRE. They're all different and the alternative tyre walls will flex differently. So a different tyre brand can make a difference. A wider, less streched, tyre might give more flex and comfort or could make it worse. Pending on what tyre pressures you're running, a lower pressure (1psi) could help too. At the end of the day, if the tyre is too hard, it will not flex over the bumps and therefore loose contact - not a problem if you're only on a SMOOTH race track.

 

Presonally I loved my low ride with super handling, but gave it all up for comfort, as the standard suspension is reasonably firm and is therefore my compromise.

 

In a nut shell - live with it

[24V Renshaw 0]

Yeah, tyre pressures make a huge difference. I always ran 32 up front and 28/29 in the rear. Any higher at the back and it was awful.

 

Jay

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Well my Rado was about as low as you could practically go and was running very stretched tyres on 17's. It drove superbly over the bumps (as anyone who has been in it will testify, PhatVR6/Coxy etc..) and never "crashed".

 

Having seen your front tyres actually rubbing the arches moving onto the rollers at Stealth's dyno day, I find it difficult, no, impossible to believe your old car's lack of suspension travel could handle well on a typical, windy, poorly surfaced B road...... I guarantee it would not be able to do more than 30mph over the B666 in Cambridgeshire how it was set up :lol:

 

But normal, regular A roads, yep, I agree, decked Rados can be fine..... but the B roads seperate the slammers from the handlers.

[herisites 0]

Ok thanks for all the help guys. I am going to order some new bushes and fit them myself (fronts anyway) and i also wanted to change the ball joints. Is GSF the best place to get these? If so on their site they usually list products singularly so would that mean i need to order 2 ball joints??

 

Cheers.

[corozin 0]

I bought a set of VR6 front wishbones from GSF in October. Unlike the 16v items they come with bushes already pressed in, which saves a lot of work (unless you're planning to upgrade the bushes as I did!)

 

From what I understand, different batches of wishbones may or may not have new ball-joints already fitted in (another useful job job). I was lucky as mine came like that, but to be honest it's down to luck at the time you order them in.

 

Don't harrange the GSF staff if they come without the ball joints prefitted. It really is out of thier control, and you can't order them - it really is down to luck.

 

I should also mention that these items incurred a lofty discount when I waved my CCGB membership card - they knocked off a lot more than 15% on the ones I bought!

 

Good luck -

John

[herisites 0]

Cheers mate thats really helpful. Im not a CCGB member though unfortunately :( do you reckon they will give discount if i mention im a corrado forum member?

[Spicy G60 0]

I know this is kinda going over what people have already said. But I've just got some KW var 1's and a set of H&R anti-roll bars. Was waiting to fit them till i had the money for some powerflex bushes, Kinda having second thoughts about the bushes now. Just wandering how many people are running them and really how harsh are they? i dont mind a hard ride but don't want to completly ruin it.

[Mystic Rado 0]

I dunno, I can only go by my experience of fitting Powerflex bushes to my Mark 2 Golf as I said before. With the Koni/Eibach combination the handling is fantastic, but the ride is harsh compared to how it was before. It's fine and very tight on smooth roads, on bumpy B roads you feel every bump, though it's controlled at the same time and brilliant to drive for short blasts. I don't know if a heavier car like a 'rado would be different though.

 

I had a chat with Awesome GTi about it and they said, pretty reasonably, that it's a very subjective thing and what one person finds acceptable, someone else might think is completely out of order.

 

The other thing to bear in mind is that when people fit poly bushes, they're usually replacing totally wasted standard rubbers that have been on the car for tens of thousands of miles, so they probably feel disproportionately better and just fitting new OE bushes would have been a big improvement anyway. That's upgrades for you, if you replace something trashed with something new, it'll feel better, no surprises really.

 

I'd try and blag a ride in a car with a similar spec to yours with Powerflexes fitted and see what you make of it, but bear in mind that the suspension and wheels make a difference too. And some poly bushes are harsher than others too?

[corozin 0]

I've had have Polyflex bushes since November, and to be honest they're great - very "tight" and controlled feeling and not crashy at all.

 

In my case I opted for them because the setup of the car is biased towards track use and the modifications on the car result in greater forces exerted on the suspension/transmission componants, so stock bushes will wear far more quickly.

 

There really is no comparison; the Polyflex items are so massively over engineered compared to the OE wishbone bushes... I think they'll easily outlast the rest of the car!

 

That said the standard bushes are still pretty damned good, and simply replacing knackered old ones with new items will be more than good enough for 75% of drivers. You also have to consider that the a Polyflex kit isn't exactly small change so you really have to want a set. I think mine were just over £130 for just the front ones (incl ARB bushes)

 

Here's a picture of the before/after of my own install:

[herisites 0]

Ok can someone tell me what is involved in changing the wishbones in other words a small step by step would be helpful as my dad would usually help me but he wont be able to so i will tackle this myself. We changed the bushes on my old fiesta no problems so i sort of know what im doing but if there is a guide somewhere or someone could give me a step by step that would really help me.

 

Thanks,

 

Rob.

[herisites 0]

New wishbones with bushes are now ordered, hopefully they will come with the ball joints but if not i will order them seperately. So thats my next weekend sorted out and i hope i can notice some difference in ride quality and mainly handling etc.

[JIMMI 0]

Dont forget to order a sump gasket, you need to remove the sump th do the drivers side wishbone !!

 

jimmi...............