Charge cooler sizing ...

[LJ 0]

Bored at work ... and stumbled upon chargecooler.co.uk, as do :-)

Would a unit that flows 400CFM be up to the job for a std head G60? Stretching it here, and even a G-Werks flowed head?

 

They do a 950CFM version, but it costs more :-(

[G60SC_Stoney 0]

wouldnt you be better off running a intercooler ? i considered running a chargecooler but was advised against it due to extra cost/plumbing/weight etc. surely you'd be better off running a FMIC and methanol injection?

[LJ 0]

I've always liked the idea of the CC as you get a lot less boost pipe run.

...but you're right, FMIC is the cheaper and lighter option.

 

I don't think 400CFM is enough flow :-(

CNC Heads has the PG *std* head flowing 81.1 on the inlet (per cylinder?), so 325CFM. Their flowed std valve does 423CFM. Your 16v head would flow even more!

[flusted 0]

My inlet temps drop to ambient and below with FMIC and water injection.

Didnt notice any downsides once the FMIC was fitted,and it has alot longer pipe routing.

The standard g60 piping IMO is well restrictive anyway

[G60SC_Stoney 0]

im having a special intercooler made up anyway that comes straight out of my BBM charger into the FMIC with minimal pipework (propably 6inches, if that?) then straight out of the IC onto the throttle body agin with minimal pipework (4 inches?) mind you this will be on my 16vG60 and not an 8v.

[chargecooler 0]

I've always liked the idea of the CC as you get a lot less boost pipe run.

...but you're right, FMIC is the cheaper and lighter option.

 

I don't think 400CFM is enough flow :-(

CNC Heads has the PG *std* head flowing 81.1 on the inlet (per cylinder?), so 325CFM. Their flowed std valve does 423CFM. Your 16v head would flow even more!

 

Hi. First post an' all...

 

The CFM isnt strictly true. Just because a head on a flow bench can flow over 400, doesnt mean in application on a running engine you are actually going to see this nessecarily...

 

Rule of thumb is 400cfm is around 300bhp. You can flow more than 400cfm through the chargecooler units, but of course you are going to increase the pressure drop, and the air speed through the core is going to increase to a level where it is harder to cool. Its a 'reccomended' figure, not a limit. :)

[g60bv 0]

400cfm should be more than enough for an 8v g60 engine, regardless of head . - std ported or cnc big valve.

[LJ 0]

Cool! So a 400CFM (290bhp) 4"x8" AVT Chargecooler (PWR Barrel) would be up to the job. Interesting...

My knowledge has only come from my best pal Google :-)

 

chargecooler - are you David from AVT? Google'd posts on PistonHeads regarding the Barrel :-)

 

So this CC and the biggest rad I can fit in good air flow!

[chargecooler 0]

One of the Daves... :) Yes, theyre fine for that power level. The next size core up are very good, but of course the inlet and outlets are 76mm thus you need to up your intake piping size.

 

Ive just added a 6x6 unit which isnt too expensive and still quite compact (same length as a 4x10)

[Supercharged 2]

Got to love this forum - someone asks about charge coolers and someone called 'chargecooler' arrives and also appears to kno what he's talking about :thumb right:

[chargecooler 0]

Got to love this forum - someone asks about charge coolers and someone called 'chargecooler' arrives and also appears to kno what he's talking about :thumb right:

 

Quick, someone ask a question about Pamela Anderson..... :lol:

[CrazyDave 0]

I've been looking at the 4"x10" for my VR6T. Still got to measure up to see if it'll all fit in!

 

Also thinking about using the washer bottle as a combined water tank? Any thoughts?

[chargecooler 0]

Hi

 

What do you mean 'combined' water tank?. You don't mean both at the same time do you...? Really, the header tank needs to have an inlet and outlet, not just a single feed as it makes it easier for the air to bleed, and just be as high up in the engine bay as possible.

 

There are a couple of VR6 installations on my gallery page. If it helps though, I have a new model, the 6x6 which allows high CFM/power capabilty, larger inlet outlet diameters, and the overall length is slightly shorter than the 4x10.

[CrazyDave 0]

Hi

 

What do you mean 'combined' water tank?. You don't mean both at the same time do you...? Really, the header tank needs to have an inlet and outlet, not just a single feed as it makes it easier for the air to bleed, and just be as high up in the engine bay as possible.

 

There are a couple of VR6 installations on my gallery page. If it helps though, I have a new model, the 6x6 which allows high CFM/power capabilty, larger inlet outlet diameters, and the overall length is slightly shorter than the 4x10.

 

I mean use the washer bottle, but with inlet and outlet pipes fitted for the charge cooler and the modified impeller pump that you use. Keep the bottle topped up and use higher than normal screen wash concentration to stop it all freezing. Should be enough volume in the tank including the pipework and extra rad?

 

Just sized up for 2.25" pipework and have most of the bits ready to go on the car. So think I'll have to stick with the 4x10.

[LJ 0]

CrazyDave, I was also thinking of using the washer bottle in the same manner.

[chargecooler 0]

Yes, that should be fine. :)

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I mean use the washer bottle, but with inlet and outlet pipes fitted for the charge cooler and the modified impeller pump that you use. Keep the bottle topped up and use higher than normal screen wash concentration to stop it all freezing. Should be enough volume in the tank including the pipework and extra rad?

 

You would be selling yourself short doing that, after all the good work you've done so far.

 

Think about how water behaves under pressure and as a coolant and rethink that plan!

[chargecooler 0]

There isnt high pressure in the system, but enough if hot to blow a push on cap off. What does this washer bottle look like? Is it a flimsy plastic thing or hard resin formed like a header tank?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

It's a flimsy plastic thing ;-)

 

Plus I don't think it's 4 litre capacity is enough headroom for heat absorption either.

[LJ 0]

Chargecooler, is there a rule of thumb for the header tank size?

 

I thought the flimsy'ish ~4ltr washer bottle would be Ok for a G60 application as the charge for a mildly tuned setup shouldn't get that hot. I'd have thought a turbo'd VR6 or G60 would run charge considerably hotter?

[Kevin Bacon 5]

I guess in really basic terms, a bath of cold water would be heated up less than a basin of cold water when sticking a big lump of hot metal into them?

 

My system is somewhat overkill for the boost I'm running, but I prefer to build overkill. It has an alloy 12 litre tank in the boot with motorbike type filler cap, 17mm bore water lines, prerad the width of the bumper almost, 75L/min pump and a Spearco chargecooler.

 

Very happy with the results, it works really well.

[g60bv 0]

i used my washer bottle for years. with out any problems. my charge cooler is a lotus esprite turo unit. you dont need to over concentrate the washer fluid . it wont freeze.

[chargecooler 0]

Chargecooler, is there a rule of thumb for the header tank size?

 

I thought the flimsy'ish ~4ltr washer bottle would be Ok for a G60 application as the charge for a mildly tuned setup shouldn't get that hot. I'd have thought a turbo'd VR6 or G60 would run charge considerably hotter?

 

Not really, slightly bigger is better, but huge tanks are not really nessecary as the tank will go in the cold side of the system, so its not like this large volume of water in the tank is cooling 'hot' water from the chargecooler. It would only work to that advantage if your prerad wasnt doing as good a job as it should be and the water coming out of the prerad was still hot.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

its not like this large volume of water in the tank is cooling 'hot' water from the chargecooler. It would only work to that advantage if your prerad wasnt doing as good a job as it should be and the water coming out of the prerad was still hot.

 

That's precisely what happens on a rolling road though because you're not getting the same airflow over the prerad as you would on the road, especially if it's mounted low down in / under the bumper. A piddly little tank in these circumstances is not going to be much use at all.

 

I'm sorry, but there is no such thing as too much water or moving water too fast through an intercooler.

[chargecooler 0]

Yes, thats right, though a big water tank isnt the b-all and end all, as you can generate alot of water volume through lengthing the coolant system and increasing the pipe bore. 25mm tube is 2.7 times more water volume than 17mm, and it is actually IN the system, rather than being part of an external 'resevoir'. Some of my larger CC kits use 32mm throughout..

 

Whats going to lose heat quicker away from the hot side of the CC, 2m of 17mm or 2m of 32mm which has 3.5 times more water in it to absorb the heat...:wink:

 

Also, if you move the water tooo fast through the pre-rad it may not be to its full cooling efficiency, but it has to be going at a fair rate of knots....