Supercharged 2 Posted October 26, 2003 Do you ever get the feeling your fighting a loosing battle...? Fix one thing then discover another 2 problems!! Yesterday morning I'd arranged to meet a friend who works in a local garage and do a bit of servicing on my car, he gets free use of the ramps / tools etc on saturdays to do his own / friends cars which is handy... and only charges the price of a few beers! Anyways, we set about changing the rear pads and changed the fluid, everything going fine... I had bought a PAS belt from GSF as the other one was cracked, the BOSCH belt they sold me turned out to be the wrong size (just the latest in wrong parts from GSF i'd got latly!!! - I will put this in another thread as its something people should be aware of) - Lukily i managed to get another belt from a place up the road and on it went, also wanted to do the fuel filter as I don't think it had ever been changed! - the screw holding this on would not budge so we cut off and cable tied the new one on using 2 new hose clips. Checking the rest of the car after fixing a couple of missing screws and plastic covers not sitting quite right and a badly routed brake cable (not put back properly after previous work!) , I noticed that there was alot of play on one of the front wheels... Thought it was the bearing at first but the whole wheel, brakes, damper moves so looks like one of the ball joints on the Tie rod has gone, this will hopefully be a nice cheap and easy part to fix if it is that and not the whole steering rack! So after minor problems we checked our work and got the wheels back on, the garage was about to close so went to start the car, It turned a couple of times (but didn't catch as expected after fitting the new filter) - went to turn again and was completly dead, nothing! Luckily a certain Mr Haywire had come down to have a look at the car (or take the piss - still not sure which one it was!) as he only lives up the road. After checking around, starter, batery, fuses etc I noticed that I was not getting any lights on the dash when the key was at point 2 but lights came on when I turned to start it (but no starter) - we then thought it was the imobiliser (clifford alarm) and spent a bit of time messing around with the modes etc trying to get it to fire up, whilst doing this I noticed if I moved the key about in the 3rd position, the heater fan would come on but still no start. After managing to bump start in reverse with the key turned fully- we came to the conclusion the the ignition switch had broken (as it switched off when I let the key go) and position 2 had become 3 hence the car not being able to start! (what are the chances of that??? - about the same as the plug to the starter breaking on the way down to Woburn Abbey!?!) Time was running out, it was getting cold and it wasn't the part of town I wanted to leave my car overnight! - VAG, GSF and eurocarparts had all closed by now so no chece of getting a new switch that day! - A good reason not to do any repairs on a weekend at all now!! I owe Kev a big thanks for giving up his afternoon to help me get it sorted and back on the road and the folowing guide should be useful to others in the same position (especially as the Ignition switch is another one of those 'Common Problems') Mr Haywire's Guide to Hotwire... After a trip to halfords for some 17A wire and blue spade connectors and to pick up a few tools we returned to the car and I removed the lower steering cowling and the plug from the ignition switch... I have to give Kev all the credit for the next bit that took him less than 15 minutes, I had a copy of the Bentley manual in the boot with wiring diags that he didn't even need to look at! Basically he made up a lead using 4 10cm lengths of the 17A cable with all 4 wires going into one spade connector for the earth (black wire on plug) and we plugged the rest into the other points on the plug except the 50A starter motor wire (red and bleck). The car was now at the second stage on the ignition switch and we touched the other wire onto the connector to turn the starter and we were back in business (after just about remembering to take the car out of gear first and using the key to turn off the steering lock before moving it! The picture below shows the lead that I think everone should make up and keep in the car with there spare bulbs / fuses / hose clips etc - the other lead which is not connected is the one to the the Large 30A red wire that feeds power to the dash thru the ignition which you remove to stop the engine (then plugs back in to give ignition switch 2 position) Again I'd like to thank Kev for his help and quick thinking and i'll be going to purchase 2 new switches from VAG tomorrow, one for me and a spare one for him! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Supercharged 2 Posted October 26, 2003 Finally... after all the fun and games yesterday, I got up early to take a trip to a local scrap yard to see if they had a Passat sunroof and a few other bits... Driving slowly along a single track road in the wet a was met by a woman in a micra doing about 40 towards me, I had stopped before she even thought about braking (dosey cow), she then proceeded to lock her wheels up and plough straight into the side of me... Luckily I was driving my sisters 1ltr Polo at the time and being a good 'ol Vee 'Dubya it only ripped of a bit of plastic side moulding - the other car has a scratch and dent running all along one side!! - quite impressive for 10.30 am on a sunday, I'm not usually up until midday :D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Furkz 0 Posted October 26, 2003 see it helps to be lazy and stay in bed till midday LOL..... Hope ur alright though...... When i first got my VW the ignition switch went but wasnt has bad just had to push the key down and turn it, lucky u had ur mates at hand Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted October 26, 2003 Blimey mate, sorry to hear about the accident, glad you weren't in the C :? Think of it as fate, because if the ignition switch hadn't broken, you'd have probably gone to the scrappy in the G60! Glad the 'bodge it and scarper' repair got you home OK! Due to sudden failure of your switch miles from home, I'm going to keep one of those lead sets in the car for emergencies, and also a pump relay by-pass lead! The MAF is now in the place we discussed. :lol: Cheers Kev Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
h100vw 0 Posted October 26, 2003 Mr Haywire's Guide to Hotwire... After a trip to halfords for some 17A wire and blue spade connectors and to pick up a few tools we returned to the car and I removed the lower steering cowling and the plug from the ignition switch... I have to give Kev all the credit for the next bit that took him less than 15 minutes, I had a copy of the Bentley manual in the boot with wiring diags that he didn't even need to look at! Basically he made up a lead using 4 10cm lengths of the 17A cable with all 4 wires going into one spade connector for the earth (black wire on plug) and we plugged the rest into the other points on the plug except the 50A starter motor wire (red and bleck). I hate to be mister picky, but the Black is the ign live. If it were an earth, you would be telling us a story about a fire engine. :shock: Big up to Kev, for the 'Bentley free electrics' though. :D Cheers Gavin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Majik 0 Posted October 26, 2003 My advice is to buy another ignition switch (spare ) and use it if the switch ever goes, you need the keys in the steering to turn the steering wheel and use a screwdriver to turno on the ignition and start the car from the new ignition switch. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted October 28, 2003 Mr Haywire's Guide to Hotwire... After a trip to halfords for some 17A wire and blue spade connectors and to pick up a few tools we returned to the car and I removed the lower steering cowling and the plug from the ignition switch... I have to give Kev all the credit for the next bit that took him less than 15 minutes, I had a copy of the Bentley manual in the boot with wiring diags that he didn't even need to look at! Basically he made up a lead using 4 10cm lengths of the 17A cable with all 4 wires going into one spade connector for the earth (black wire on plug) and we plugged the rest into the other points on the plug except the 50A starter motor wire (red and bleck). I hate to be mister picky, but the Black is the ign live. If it were an earth, you would be telling us a story about a fire engine. :shock: Big up to Kev, for the 'Bentley free electrics' though. :D Cheers Gavin Erm....it is a common connection, or earth, for the 3 pole ignition switch. The 30 amp red cable is the ignition live I think you'll find. I checked it with a multimeter last night when I replaced the switch. Ta Kev Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Majik 0 Posted October 28, 2003 Erm by the way do you really want to make a post like that on the net....careful of what you post some lowlife scum can access the info :? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bally 0 Posted October 28, 2003 Erm by the way do you really want to make a post like that on the net....careful of what you post some lowlife scum can access the info :? Majik has a good point there... :roll: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted October 28, 2003 Any committed car thief can bypass an ignition switch and won't need to logon to the Corrado forum to get the wiring codes. I worked it out in less than a minute. Besides which, the alarm/immobiliser still needs to be dearmed before the car will start. I'll leave it up to the Moderators to decided what to do with these posts but are you really that paranoid? Kev Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Henny 0 Posted October 28, 2003 I agree Kev, I have had to do similar (and actually got asked by a police man what I was doing while hotwiring my car! :? :lol: ) and it's pretty easy to work it out... The harder bits are getting around the Thatcham alarm/immobiliser and the steering lock which you still need to do to steal the car... A local car thief in our area got caught and had 8 ignition switches in his pocket from different types of car... :? He used to break in to a car, pull the multiplug off the back of the switch, start the car with his switch and then break the steering lock after knowing that he could start the car... :shock: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted October 28, 2003 The harder bits are getting around the Thatcham alarm/immobiliser and the steering lock which you still need to do to steal the car... I wish that were true :cry: I've decommissioned half a dozen alarms in my time. Mostly a mixture of Cliffords & Scorpion jobbies. Unfortunately, as good (or bad) as these alarms/immobilisers may be, the fitters just leave far too many clues as to which wires they've snipped, which wires they've spliced into and which wires they've bypassed - despite all the alarm wires being the same colour!! Takes [me] about 2 hours to unwire an alarm and resolder the original wiring loom together. Not boasting, but just had to do it a few times due to complete failure of said alarms. I personally hate them and think they're a waste of time but the damn ins companies insist on That Cat 1 on my car, so that's the only reason I've got one :? Kev Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhatVR6 0 Posted October 28, 2003 yay, tell the world how to steal a VW......dead clever..... :mad: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
h100vw 0 Posted October 29, 2003 Mr Haywire's Guide to Hotwire... After a trip to halfords for some 17A wire and blue spade connectors and to pick up a few tools we returned to the car and I removed the lower steering cowling and the plug from the ignition switch... I have to give Kev all the credit for the next bit that took him less than 15 minutes, I had a copy of the Bentley manual in the boot with wiring diags that he didn't even need to look at! Basically he made up a lead using 4 10cm lengths of the 17A cable with all 4 wires going into one spade connector for the earth (black wire on plug) and we plugged the rest into the other points on the plug except the 50A starter motor wire (red and bleck). I hate to be mister picky, but the Black is the ign live. If it were an earth, you would be telling us a story about a fire engine. :shock: Big up to Kev, for the 'Bentley free electrics' though. :D Cheers Gavin Erm....it is a common connection, or earth, for the 3 pole ignition switch. The 30 amp red cable is the ignition live I think you'll find. I checked it with a multimeter last night when I replaced the switch. Ta Kev Whilst looking at the Bentley, the 4mm red is the permanent live. The 1.5mm black is only live when on position 1 and during cranking. Other wires go to the starter, 4mm red/black, the load reduction relay/X relay, 2.5mm black/yellow and a 0.5mm brown/red which feeds the radio. There is definately no earth at the ign switch. You will find that some of the wires have no potential on them, with the ign switch off. But that doesn't make them earths. As a part time alarm fitter, there are not too many different ways you can cut the starter motor and fuel pump feeds. I agree if you have time to bypass the system it can be done. I always try to remove more than the Thatcham required 30cm of cable for each cut, making it harder to find the two ends that need to be joined. I personally don't think the fitters are given enough time. Anyone fitting a cat 1 in under 4 hours has to be cutting corners somewhere. Bonus for doing 2 in a day???? Cheers Gavin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted October 29, 2003 I personally don't think the fitters are given enough time. Anyone fitting a cat 1 in under 4 hours has to be cutting corners somewhere. Bonus for doing 2 in a day???? Cheers Gavin You're probably right. They might be under pressure from, say Clifford, to shift as many as possible! I'd prefer to fit an alarm myself to ensure the cabling is neat and that none of the dash is ill-fitted again afterwards but due to insurance companies insisting on fitment certificates, we can't DIY :x Kev Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joe M 0 Posted October 29, 2003 You can get the alarm system inspected and a new certificate for about £35 if its up to standard. I did about 2 1/2yrs ago on my 16v. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
