Definitive G60 alignment answer wanted

[Riley 0]

Right,this is getting on my t|ts now :lol:

 

G60...New crankshaft bolt,and the gudgeon type pin was mint,no wear at all.

 

It can only go on in one place so it has to be aligned perfectly for the timing mark.

 

Flywheel...

The timing mark does not match/align with the mark on the crank pully.

 

How?

Surely the only way is a twisted crank? :? or the marks are just put on the pully/flywheel willy nilly :?

 

Ps:Im looking at the right mark arent i?

The -o

 

Neil.

[Shaggy 0]

you will prob find that the Flywheel hasnt been put back on correctly.. and is now out compared to the crank pulley mark??

 

There should be 2 marks on the flywheel... one at TDC another 6 Deg BTDC..

 

The crank pulley mark is at TDC.. that is rarely wrong tbh.. it maybe out by +/- 1 degree but least it will give you a better idea of where the engine should be as this is rarely removed unlike a clutch flywheel.

[Riley 0]

Cheers m8...

 

Thing is...ive done the ignition timing using the crank mark,but everyone on here says to use the flywheel?

 

But then...am i running a tooth out also? :?

[Shaggy 0]

yeah but if the marks on the flywheel are out then not only is the cam timing out.. the ignition timing is out also... :D

 

For now just time everything up using the crank pulley mark.. you will need to dial in 6 degs of advance on a timing gun tho.. to set it up correctly when doing the Ignition timing.

[Riley 0]

Aye,ive always used a gun at 6deg :)

 

All the marks line up mint at the crank side.

 

But the problem is that,if i then go to look at the flywheel where everyones always told me to set the ign timing...the marks are not in sight. :?

 

If i turn the crank to line up the flywheel...

Then check the crank pully...the mark is way out...But the cam is still somewhere near...as it turns slower than the crank.

 

 

If ya know what i mean. :? :lol:

[Riley 0]

Trying to think of a way to explain this better...

 

Imagine the cam pully mark lining up with the slit on the back plate...You can tweak the cam round either way just a little bit,but yet it can still sort of be lined up.

Its a crap alignment idea...

Anyway.

 

If doing the above,just tweaking the cam a little bit,it moves the crank pully mark/flywheel mark more because of the difference in pully sizes.

 

I tweak the cam one way,and its lined up with the crank...no flywheel marks in sight.

 

Tweak it the other way,its lined up with the flywheel but the crank mark is waaaay before tdc.

[Riley 0]

Right...here we go.As you can see,cam alignment mark.

 

You can move the cam just slightly and still have it lined up if you see what i mean.

 

But when you do move it just a little,it throws the crank/flywheel well out...By around a tooth :?

[jezzaG60 0]

you will prob find that the Flywheel hasnt been put back on correctly.. and is now out compared to the crank pulley mark??

 

There should be 2 marks on the flywheel... one at TDC another 6 Deg BTDC..

 

The crank pulley mark is at TDC.. that is rarely wrong tbh.. it maybe out by +/- 1 degree but least it will give you a better idea of where the engine should be as this is rarely removed unlike a clutch flywheel.

 

You don't remove the flywheel on a G60 when doing the clutch... it is unlikely to have ever been removed unless for major engine work or a crank shaft oil seal. Its not like a rod change box flywheel where it comes off everytime and people get them back on wrong.

 

One thing you may be able to do.... take out number 1 spark plug and poke a screw driver or similar slim object down there. As you turn the crank the screw driver will come up with the piston. It won't tell you exactly where TDC is as the piston has a certain amount of dwell where it doesn't move at the top of its travel. It is howver possible to rock the crank back and forth and make a good guess as to where the middle of the dwell period is. Hopefully this will give you an idea on which mark is correct.

[flusted 0]

was guna say the same, i read that the crank pulley is normally wrong

[jezzaG60 0]

Agreed, i'd go for the flywheel mark every time.

[ninoG60 0]

am no expert so please dont shoot me for saying this, but if the crank pulley has a woodruff key in it, then there can only be one place that the pulley can go on, whereas a flywheel can go on in any orientation, if its been changed or removed for a reason. just my 2 penneth worth. of course i may be way off the mark here( no pun intended), id be more inclined to go with the crank pulley marks, cos mine was timed up using them, had to be cos im using a mk2 gearbox and flywheel and as the guy who did it is the author of this thread, right Neil?

[Riley 0]

Aye,and yours goes alright up against mine Manny! :shock:

 

This is what i can't understand though...when i bolted the crank pully on,it was a super snug fit,it cant go on wrong...so how could it be out?

 

And guys...just trying to get my head around this bit. :oops:

 

If i now use the flywheel to set the ignition timing...it wont be aligned with my crank/cam surely? :?

 

So am i running a tooth out?

Do i need to align the flywheel mark with the camshaft mark?

 

It revs slowly compared to manny's (chappy above) and it seems heavyish on fuel,it also intermittently farts when hitting the throttle.

 

Neil.

[jezzaG60 0]

Flywheel can't go on in any orientation..... and if your using a mk2 gearbox.... then things are completely different because you have a rod change 'box. Its still very difficult to get it wrong though unless you remove the dowels that line everything up.

If it were mine i would set my cam timing from the flywheel and the cam pulley. If it means moving your cam timing 1 tooth then you shouldn't have any problems giving it a go.

I'm not that keen on the bit of pressed steel with some nick cut in it.

[Riley 0]

Ok cool. 8)

 

Am i right about the marks being out then if i leave it as it is currently,and THEN set ign timing with flywheel?

 

Just getting confused...

 

So if i pop a driver in number 1,find roughly tdc,and then check which mark (crank or flywheel) is nearest to lining up...

 

and then set my cam to which ever it may be?

 

Lastly,where is the exact alignment on the cam? having the slash on the backplate anywhere in the middle of the two dots? :?

 

Neil.

[flusted 0]

the reason the crank pulley can be out, is there is play in the mounting between the sprocket thats held on with the 19mm and the actuall crank pulley thats held on with the 4x allen bolts.

Also dont think vw where very accuate with the markings of the crank puley anyway

[DanVW 0]

As I just mentioned in another (very similar post) I had exactly the same problem on my G60 last summer but was told that during the engine rebuild it is possible that the flywheel could have been put back on 90 degrees out!

 

I checked that number one was TDC then used the crank pulley, cam pulley and rotor arm marks to time it up and its been fine so far :-)

 

Am going to get it tuned correctly as soon as I find a rolling road close to Southampton that is recommended.. Any ideas anyone?

[Henny 0]

flywheel on a G60 will ONLY go back on in one orientation... the bolts holes are spaced to prevent it going on any other way...

 

ALWAYS go with the flywheel for timing, and if you're not sure:

Remove all the plugs

Turn the engine by hand until you see the TDC mark on the flywheel

Check on the cam that both valves are closed on No1 (ie both lobes are pointing away from the cam followers)

Carefully stick a screwdriver into No1 sparkplug hole so it's touching the top of the piston.

Turn the engine by hand either way from the TDC mark (ie turn it a few degrees clockwise, then back to the TDC mark and then back past TDC in an anticlockwise direction... )

 

The screwdriver should drop into the cylinder which ever way you turn it from the TDC mark on the flywheel.... if not, then you're probably on the 6degree mark, or someone's really messed about with the engine in the past and you no-longer have a timing mark! :roll:

 

This is how I've timed my engine up in the past as I have no timing marks on my engine other than the flywheel marks due to a Kent Vernier pulley and toothed pulleys on the Aux belts!

 

Hope this helps... 8)

[exturbo2003 0]

gotta go with henny on this one always use the flywheel for timing. and yes the mark on the cam cover should be in the middle of the dots

[flusted 0]

what happens when your flywheels been lightened so much that theres no timing mark on it :shock:

[DanVW 0]

Not questioning those far more experienced than me in this sort of thing but if the flywheel will only go back on one in the correct position how can my flywheel marks miles out?

 

Come to think of it I do have a recept for when the previous owner had the crank and flywheel lightned and balenced maybe they put the marks back on in the wrong place?

 

She has been runing fine after I set the timing using the pulleys :scratch:

[davidwort 0]

if you turn the engine by hand on the crank bolt and line up the pulley marks can you see the flywheel marks OK, if you get a friend to check how far away the flywheel marks are, turning the crank v slowly, exactly how far away are they?

[DanVW 0]

Its been nearly a year since I last looked at it but I had the exact same problem Neil is having, i.e when the pullies are lined up the flywheel marks are way out cant remember which way though :oops:

 

Having said that I was very carefull to put the crank pulley back on in the exact center as there is a lot of play in it!

[ninoG60 0]

Aye,and yours goes alright up against mine Manny! :shock:

 

 

 

It revs slowly compared to manny's (chappy above) and it seems heavyish on fuel,it also intermittently farts when hitting the throttle.

 

Neil.

 

 

I reckon mine revs easier is cos of my mk2 flywheel, i think theyre a bit lighter, and hence the reason u catch me goin up hills, and slowly edge past! :oops:

[Riki 0]

The flywheel mounting bolts are offset so it will only mount in one way where as the crank pulley can be mounted incorrectly if someone has removed the pulley ( allen key bolts ) from the mounting part with the key way.

[ninoG60 0]

but aint there a dowel hole in there to make sure this dont happen on the crank pulley?