Kevin Bacon 5 Posted November 13, 2003 VGI is Shrick's manifold. I think the original Peirburg/VW design was called VSR. PhatVR6 will tell you, he knows a lot about it. I've been in two VRs with the Shrick and I wouldn't say it's worth £1500. Yeah you do notice an improvement, but not £1500s worth of improvement, that's supercharger money, which you DO notice! Fluff, Vince doesn't hold the 2.9 in high regard I'm afraid but don't let that you put you off. I've spoken to Vince about the 3.1 overbore and he reckons the amount of money and hassle to build it isn't worth the outcome. I think 230bhp and 220lb/ft is the most you'll see from that conversion, maybe 240 with a Shrick and big valve head. A late 4motion engine has more scope for improvement. It's a better engine than either of the 12Vs anyway. Kev Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dr_mat 0 Posted November 13, 2003 VGI/VSR - I know, ta for the history lesson Kev.. ;) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted November 13, 2003 VGI/VSR - I know, ta for the history lesson Kev.. ;) All academical anyway cause I can't afford one :x Kev Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris VR6nos 0 Posted November 13, 2003 On the topic of timing chains: I have to say that my engine has over 152000miles on the clock and it idles smoothly but does have a bit chain or tensioner noise but they just keep going so don't get too serious about it but it's not too hard if you want to take the box off and flywheel, may aswell take advantage of the situation and fit a new clutch at the same time, there are 3 chains and i found them all at Eurocarparts for not too much, around £100 as i remember but don't quote me. That is one of the next jobs i'll get done. Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris VR6nos 0 Posted November 13, 2003 kevhaywire, I've spoken to Vince about the 3.1 overbore and he reckons the amount of money and hassle to build it isn't worth the outcome. I think 230bhp and 220lb/ft is the most you'll see from that conversion, maybe 240 with a Shrick and big valve head. Kev, the best noticable improvement would be the 3.1 conversion with a charger and get a custom map done from AMD or Geoff (ex-amd) and a smaller pulley, got to be good! The JE forget pistons can be bought for £700, i have enquired for my own use and £10 per cylinder for the re-bore so even including the other things you obviously need, it can be done ecconomically if you have some know-how and ambition! Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted November 13, 2003 Kev, the best noticable improvement would be the 3.1 conversion with a charger and get a custom map done from AMD or Geoff (ex-amd) and a smaller pulley, got to be good! Yeah that would kick some butt! The JE forget pistons can be bought for £700, i have enquired for my own use and £10 per cylinder for the re-bore so even including the other things you obviously need, it can be done ecconomically if you have some know-how and ambition! Do you still need the 2.8 bottom end to do the 3.1 conversion, or can the 2.9 be used? Is it just a piston change, or a combination of crank and piston change? Cheers Kev Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris VR6nos 0 Posted November 13, 2003 From a 2.9 to a 3.0L as in Mr Hartley's, is a straight forward job as is going to 3.1L but to be cautious Guy opted for the 3.0L job. 3.2L and over really needs a stroked crank as well but the you are talking big money! The pistons for 3.1L are the same price as the 3.0L items and the re-bore cost is the same too, so I'd go for the larger capacity. Where did the idea of needing a 2.8 block come from? I think they'll just be the same once re-bored but never delved into that. Just have to make sure there is no porosity in either case. Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhatVR6 0 Posted November 14, 2003 Of course we all want a VGI (or even preferably a VSR). why would you prefer the VSR?? you'd be paying more money for something that doesn't actually flow as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dr_mat 0 Posted November 14, 2003 Because it's the "real thing". Not aftermarket... And it doesn't bash your bonnet, and you can still get access to the plugs. Minor points, I know, but there ya go! It's not going to happen anyway, as kev says, I can't afford it either! Anyway I thought the VSR worked out roughly the same price as the VGI, simply because they're *all* 2nd hand now? And I was under the impression that to get the best out of the VGI you have to put Shrick cams on it too, which adds plenty of £££ to the cost... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhatVR6 0 Posted November 14, 2003 The 'real thing'??? It's made my Peirburg, not VW, it's just as aftermarket as the Schrick one (which incidentally is identical, save for the higher flowing, equalised length runners). You can still buy the Schrick one new (not that you'd want to at the price). I've got 268 cams, not schricks, but they were only £80, and I only paid £430 for the Schrick. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dr_mat 0 Posted November 14, 2003 Everyone knows putting cams in costs nothing if labour is essentially free (i.e. DIY). The rest of us have to pay £36/hour + VAT to get someone competent. Two reasons: 1) I don't have the tools or the space (not even a driveway) 2) I'm not competent!!! So to that £80 you'd have to add at least as much again to get the things fitted... And as for the Schrick, well that's a not inconsequential fitting job either!! Point taken about the VSR, but at least it was badged "VW motosport" at the time, which implies it had some official VW backing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhatVR6 0 Posted November 14, 2003 Well I do everything myself anyway, so fitting cost never come into it. £36 an hour!!! :shock: you must be mental, how do you afford to runa VR6 with labour charges like that!!! As for garages, I build my whole car in the driveway! i'll be doing a gearbox swap and timing chains on the drive tomorrow too. See what you're saying about the badge, but at the end of the day, it's just a badge...just like my gearbox, it's made my Gemini 'for' VW Motorsport. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dr_mat 0 Posted November 14, 2003 I live in Reading, can't find even non-VW-specialists for less than £30/hr. Back 'oop north' I used to pay a lot less, but that's deeply inconvenient.. And the answer to the "how do you afford".. I DON'T!!!! Hence no VSR/VGI or anything. In fact I've got to get a new exhaust, a new engine mount and probably new track rod ends fitted very soon. This car is killing me! Now, if you'd like to do that lot for me... ;) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhatVR6 0 Posted November 14, 2003 I would if you didn't live in Reading! Back on the topic, I'll take some pics when I'm doing the upper tensioner and stuff, and show you that the lower tensioner hardly wears at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted November 14, 2003 I would if you didn't live in Reading! Back on the topic, I'll take some pics when I'm doing the upper tensioner and stuff, and show you that the lower tensioner hardly wears at all. Yeah good man, that would be excellent. I would also be interested in some pics of that upper tensioner you mentioned and how to replace it etc. Cheers Kev Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Bacon 5 Posted November 14, 2003 From a 2.9 to a 3.0L as in Mr Hartley's, is a straight forward job as is going to 3.1L but to be cautious Guy opted for the 3.0L job. 3.2L and over really needs a stroked crank as well but the you are talking big money! The pistons for 3.1L are the same price as the 3.0L items and the re-bore cost is the same too, so I'd go for the larger capacity. Where did the idea of needing a 2.8 block come from? I think they'll just be the same once re-bored but never delved into that. Just have to make sure there is no porosity in either case. Chris Is that your engine on Stealth's wall? Erm, the 2.8 block.....I know you need that to do a 2.9 rebuild but I wasn't sure if you also need it for a much larger capacity increase aswell. Just curious! Ta Kev Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris VR6nos 0 Posted November 17, 2003 Good recognition Kev it is Stealth's wall ;-) Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vr6190175 0 Posted November 20, 2003 Just found this site and thought i would comment RE the tapping VR6 engine when cold. My brother bought a mulberry golf VR6 highline last year with just 20K on clock and one owner FVWSH etc. totally immaculate. This car taps like crazy when it is cold for 5mins!!. Sometimes does'nt do it in summer but in winter it loves tapping for a good 5-6mins before the noise suddenly dissapears. Anyhow about 3 months ago the timing chain starts making a rattling sound (easily distihguishable from the tappett noise incidently). We thought it was valve noise and started relating this to the lumpy idle it had always had. Anyhow my bro couldn't handle it (despite car driving fine) so kicked off at VW and got the whole lot done by VW for £300 making them return back to him all his old parts against those listed on the invoive (paranoia). The timing chain noise was completely gone and the engine sounded even newer BUT she still taps exactly the same and idles lumpy. Drives perfect as well My Corrado is a 94 63K which also has this lumpy idle. I feel slight vibrations through the wheel all the time. Sometimes its not too bad and other times it is worse but its always there. Is this classed as normal on VR6 engines. I am interested to know how many others have this problem, Incidently if your tapping noise goes away definately stay clear of the timing chain job. The chain noise on my bros was there all the time but not as bad when cold. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
