Recoditioning VR6 head, parts prices etc..

[Rpmayne 0]

Right, being brave this weekend and removing the engine for an overhawl. Smoke on overrun, oily spark plugs and an alternator problem have prompted this work now. Have another car to use for a while aswell so time should hopefully be on my side for a change.

 

Below is a list of parts I think I need so far with prices. I have tried to use GSF as much as possible except for items which I thought weren't worth chancing. Saying that I've used GSF head gasket sets etc before with no problems.

 

Head gasket set (VW £135.22)

Hydraulic lifters set (GSF £111.00)

Valve guide set(GSF £15.00)

Both chain tensioners (VW £45.52)

Head bolt set (GSF £14.00)

Spark plug set (GSF £15.00)

Sachs clutch (GSF £82.00)

 

I've added the clutch as its original on 82,000mls and thought I may as well do it now.

 

The prices above exclude VAT. The total including VAT comes out at £490.84

 

I was quoted at least £500+VAT labour for the above so I'm going to attempt it myself. Does anyone know of any suitable way of mounting the engine out of the car to do the clutch and head?

 

What do people think on the list? Still seems expensive to me, and that is excluding the chains which I would have ideally liked to have done aswell. VW prices would add about £100 more..

[Kevin Bacon 5]

£111 for the lifters sounds quite dear, Vince charged me £84 inc VAT for 12 of them and they're same brand as the GSF ones....shop around a bit for those.

 

Headbolts - VW only if I were you, as per the head gasket set.

 

Valve guides - Again, VW should be used, knowing how quickly they wear down! Or a head rebuilder might be able to sell you some good ones. You'll need the new ones pressing in by such a person anyway. Unless you have access to a lathe and then you can make your own drift to punch the old ones out and drive the new ones in, but you need to be sure of how far to knock them into the head tho!

 

It's a good learning experience and although it appears steep at this stage, don't forget the huge amounts of labour you're going to save!

 

You'll need an engine stand if you haven't got a workshop bench or something. Somewhere like Machine Mart sell them for a reasonable price....or you can rent those and engine hoists from the usual tool hire places.

[Henny 0]

I just bought an engine stand from machine mart for about £35. It's brilliant and I wish I'd have had one for the last engine that I built too! :roll:

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Oh forgot to say, make sure you get a metal head gasket in the headset as they a lot tougher. HeadSet kit is 021 198 012A and the metal gasket on it's own is 021 103 383L, but all VR6 sets sold these days *should* come with the metal gasket.

 

K

[Rpmayne 0]

Henny, I take it its strong enough to undo the gearbox etc while its attached to the stand? Will it take the VR6?

 

Kevhaywire, gonna do the gaskets and bolts from VW as you say now, don't want to regret it later. Phoned up a machine shop near me, £75.00 for pressing new guides and reseating excluding the guides, although they will sorce them. Does that sound ok?

 

Cheers for the help!

[Henny 0]

Henny, I take it its strong enough to undo the gearbox etc while its attached to the stand? Will it take the VR6?

 

The Gearbox needs to be taken off before mounting the engine onto the stand that I've bought... The picture on the box nine came in has a complete big block V8 on the stand, so a nice little light VR6 won't break it! :wink:

 

See HERE for more details... 8)

 

Actually, looking at that, it may not help you too much with the job you need to do... :? Have a look and see what you think... I've never worked on a VR6 so I'm now passed my experiance on this one... :roll: :wink: 8)

[john_wintle 0]

Rpmayne,

 

If you are interested I have an ELRING Head Set as new and sealed for the VR6 92-98. p/n 917.966.

 

Charging £50 + postage.

 

Let me know if you (or anyone else is) are interested.

 

John.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

That stand should be fine, it just bolts into the gearbox threads and has adjustable bolt span by the look of it.

 

Oh and RPMayne, it might be an idea to replace both crank shaft seals and get the flywheel skimmed.....and do the chains......sorry, but if you're going to the trouble of taking it out of the car mate, you might aswell make sure you don't have to do it again for another 100,000 miles. The reason I say skim the flywheel is because I've had two SACHs clutches and they both judder.....skimming the flywheel will stop that....and I would use a LUK (original VW) clutch, not SACHs.

 

Erm...what else....yes, £75 for guide pressing sounds very reasonable. I'd go for that and the choice of guides is up to you, just bear in mind VW ones start going at around 80K, so if your man can source stronger ones, which won't wear down the valve stems prematurely, then get him to source them. I think they tend to use sintered bronze guides as an upgrade.

 

K

[Henny 0]

One thing to add (it caught me out!)

 

The engine stand DOES NOT come with bolts to hold the engine onto it! You need some bolts long enough to go through the stand's arms and into the thread on the engine to be able to mount an engine to the stand... :roll:

[Rpmayne 0]

Well, the engines out and the head is now off, what a state. 1 and 6 were noticeable worse as far as oil and coke was concerned. Have also found the heads been off before.. The timing chain fixed guide had been overtightened so breaking the fixing hole surround (in the guide), a bolt was missing from the cover, and the inlet manifolds have been ported. The timing chain tensioner was also worn and broken where the bottom pop-rivets are.

 

Now in the process of getting the valves cleaned, guides changed and valves reseated.

 

Just have one or two little questions if anyone can help..

 

1. The piston bores are all comming out at 82.00mm. The honing marks are still visible aswell. Does this sound like the bores are ok?

 

2. Whats the best way to clean the top of the pistons without getting all the dirt down the bores?

 

3. Crank Timing. How can I make sure the crank is TDC? The flywheel had to come off so I could mount the engine and look at the chains so I've lost the flywheel TDC mark (moved the crank to check the bores). There is a ground tooth on the crank chain sprocket but when piston 1 (and 6) are at top this mark is about 90 degrees back from top.

 

4. Cam timing. Just want to check really but if both cams are in the correct position for cylinder 1 TDC, the cutouts in the end of each cam should be inline and their bottom edge should be inline with the heads top edge.. ? (so allowing the VW official setting piece to fit, which I don't have)

 

Ta

[Rpmayne 0]

Just incase anyone else is experiencing similar problems mentioned above, the cause could be the same as below. Just to recap, this is a 87,000mls '93 VR6 with a full service history. As can be quite clearly seen, cylinders 1 and 6 and f**ked! I took the head down for new guides, and although they were worn (not to limit), I was advised that the valve stem seals were actually doing their job. So wheres the oil coming from then?? (I asked with a sinking feeling).. Piston rings. Bugger!!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Not good :(

 

Looks like you'll be needing a short motor rebuild :x

 

The engine shouldn't be in that condition at 87K with FSH, but it's not unheard of.

 

That's real sh1tty luck mate. I applaud you for doing all this yourself though and you're learning an awful lot about the VR6 in the process.

 

K

[dazzyvr6 0]

holy cow...i hope mines not like that

[Kevin Bacon 5]

holy cow...i hope mines not like that

 

You'd know if it was!

[Storm 0]

RPMayne

 

Take a look through this site, lots of good stuff for the VR6. Where abouts are you?

[Rpmayne 0]

VR6-er, on the coast near Brighton. I don't see too many Corrado's round these parts.

 

Will have a good look round the site, the new rings and valve guide work should be done by next weekend so in the meantime i'll read a much as possible.

 

Think I got the crank timing sorted.. The ground tooth on the crank sprocket lines up with the join of the crank bearing housing and the bottom of the block (90deg. CCW from vertical), and the intermediate sprocket has an arrow pointing upwards meeting with a line on the block. At this point pistons 1 and 6 are TDC which sounds about right.

[Storm 0]

Mr Mayne I missed the site I was trying to point you to:

 

http://www.neatwebdesign.co.uk/sites/hi ... sp?car=vr6

 

Have you ever rebuilt an engine before? I think I could do it, but would need someone nearby me thinks.

 

I was also thinking about your block If the main bearings and rod bearings are okay then new rings from the above site are only £80. Be nice to know what you find and how long it takes.

 

Lastly, dont forget to fit an oil cooler, to seriously slow down the wear. I think VAG screwed up here, the car should have had one as std.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Lastly, dont forget to fit an oil cooler, to seriously slow down the wear. I think VAG screwed up here, the car should have had one as std.

 

VW were obviously satisfied with the heat exchanger method, especially as it's cheaper and easier for them to manufacture and fit than an radiator cooler!

 

Even BMW E30 325is came with external oil coolers, so BMW had their heads screwed on. VW chose to cool the power steering fluid instead on Corrados!

 

I'm happy with my Mocal, it sheds 20 degrees off motorway running temps and there's no mayo during slower and shorter drives. So long as you get an 80 degree or even 90 if you want, oilstat plate, you'll be fine.

 

K

[Rpmayne 0]

VR6-er, thanks for the link. I have already ordered the rings and shells from VAG though. Not even sure how much they have cost me yet, getting to the point where I don't really care and let the credit card take the battering.

 

I've rebuilt a 8v golf head (stem seals, springs, lifters, head gasket etc) and taken an engine out of a 16v although I used an angle grinder which meant I didn't need a hoist. Long story but wrote that car off, cut it up into bits and took it down the local tip. This VR6 is the biggest job I have taken on, just be prepared for the list of required bits to spiral out of control. From an original estimate of about £600 I think its going to end up nearer £1500.00.

 

Kevhaywire, suppose I should really get this oil cooler after doing all this..

[Rpmayne 0]

Any ideas where to get a complete oil cooler kit from with everything I need to install it infront of the radiator? I take it thats the most popular place for VR6's? Any piccies would be great.

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Any ideas where to get a complete oil cooler kit from with everything I need to install it infront of the radiator? I take it thats the most popular place for VR6's? Any piccies would be great.

 

Call Vince at Stealth as he knows exactly what to get. Thinkauto.com don't seem to know their arses from their elbows. You don't get any brackets etc in the kit, those you have to make yourself but B&Q sell the right stuff to do the job.

 

There is a pic of my cooler fitted in front of the radiator on the forum somewhere but god knows where.....I'll try and hunt it down...

 

K

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Here it is...

[Rpmayne 0]

Wicked mate, i'll give him a call tonight. Looks a good neat install!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Wicked mate, i'll give him a call tonight. Looks a good neat install!

 

Cheers! As your bumper is already off etc, it'll be a breeze for you to install :lol:

[Storm 0]

try Darren at G-werks